We use Google Analytics to see which pages are read and how the site is used, so we know what to improve. This only runs if you accept. See our privacy notice for details.

Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Ukrainian accommodation supports

Summary

Deputy Healy-Rae complained that Ukrainian accommodation in Kerry and elsewhere was harming tourism and local businesses, and objected strongly to what he felt was the Tánaiste’s response. After a long heated exchange about whether he was being told he should not raise the issue, the Tánaiste defended the supports as a response to Russia’s invasion and said the €800 payment is not comparable to market rent.

I am very glad to get the opportunity to raise a number of concerns people in Kerry and Killarney have in regard to the massive number of Ukrainians who have been placed in hotels and guesthouses around the county. Over 35% of hotel beds in the town of Killarney are being taken up by refugees. People in Killarney, and all Kerry people, worked together for almost 150 years to bring the tourism product to where it was. However, as a result of a shortage of beds there has been a serious reduction in footfall. Many small restaurants, pubs, coffee shops and craft shops are struggling. In Killarney, six such businesses have already closed, as well as four in Killorglin and more in many other places. I ask the Government to address this serious situation immediately.

On housing, I ask for a very serious anomaly to be addressed. A local Killarney or Kerry person seeking to rent a private house will only get HAP or RAS from the State, which many homeowners will not entertain. Householders will get €800 per month tax free for housing Ukrainians. Local Kerry and Irish people do not have a hope of competing with that. I want the same tax exemption to apply to our own people who are trying to rent. There is no homeless centre in Killarney; homeless people have to go to Tralee. I do not have to say who is in that centre now.

I know the law on social welfare payments is changing for refugees who arrive here from now on. All of those who have arrived until now receive the same social welfare payments as Irish people, and we have been told they have all received a medical card and all of the entitlements that come with that. Many local people, even those who are sick and in need of a medical card, do not qualify for one. I want the same benefits and conditions to be made available to Irish people. They should all get the same ophthalmology and dental treatments.

For as long as I can remember, in order to qualify for free school transport a child had to be living more than two miles from the nearest primary school. This is not the case for Ukrainian children. They are all brought by school transport to national schools and there is no limit on distance. They get free transport. Secondary school students in Killarney have been travelling to Killorglin for years and do not qualify for free school transport. There are 11 Ukrainian children on one bus. I asked that 13 children from Killarney also be allowed to travel in order to fill the 24 seats on the bus, which was organised by the Minister for Education, but my request was turned down. I want our own people and children to get the same consideration as anyone else when it comes to school transport.

Comment on this

In respect of the situation with Ukrainians in this country, first of all, Russia invaded Ukraine savagely, illegally and, in my view, immorally and violated the UN Charter in so doing. It bombed towns, cities and civilian infrastructure. When the war started, I recall scenes of families packing trains and fathers and husbands saying goodbye to their loved ones. That has all been documented. It led to the largest displacement of European citizens since the Second World War.

Up to 12 million people have been displaced. Irish people welcomed Ukrainians into the country. These are refugees. The majority were women and children without strong incomes. This was part of a European directive in which Europe as a whole said we would look after Ukrainian people who are fleeing war. The position the Deputy has adopted is to try to contrast that - very unfairly and wrongly if I may say so, with respect - with the normal situation here in terms of entitlements to health and education services. These are refugees fleeing war. It is a correct and basic humanitarian response to try to do the best we can to facilitate people fleeing war in an obvious situation where apartment blocks are being bombed and so forth.

I am very surprised the Deputy referenced the €800 payment because those people volunteered their houses. Many were not actually looking for €800, which is paid per month, by the way. However, the Government felt that, over time, there would be costs attached to this for repairs. In some instances, the Irish Red Cross Society or local authority would say the building had to be brought up to a certain standard, people had to make sure the electrics were right and so forth. It was fair to say that to people who volunteered their own homes or houses they had or whatever. In some cases, they brought people into their own homes and let them have a room and access to the wider house. That is the context of the €800 payment. That is not going to be extended beyond its provision for people who said they had a spare property or whatever and they would make it available for people fleeing war. The State said it was very decent of them to do that and it would help them by paying €800. That is the context. To say that everybody should get it now on the same terms is not comparing like with like.

The rent-a-room scheme exists. We brought that in for anyone who could rent out a room to any person seeking accommodation and it creates significant tax reliefs.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Go raibh maith agat.

Comment on this

On the school front, we should pay tribute to our schools for the manner in which they have accommodated so many Ukrainian children-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Tá muid thar am.

Comment on this

-----and integrated them into our system.

Comment on this

I have no problem with the Ukrainian people or any people from any other part of the world. Do not any one of you over there or over here behind me say that I have any gripe with any of them. The gripe I have is with the Tánaiste and the Government. If the Government is able to give €800 tax free to one section of society, it should be able to do it for the others as well. Irish people, Kerry people, cannot compete for a private house when the house owner is going to get €800 tax free. How could that be fair?

On the other issues, I have no spite in the world for the Ukrainian people or no gripe at all to tease out with them. It is with the Government. I want the same conditions applied across the board with regard to the medical card and school transport. It is happening. The 13 children I spoke about who were not let on the bus have to wait in Killorglin for half an hour for the rural link bus to come along. They are drowned waiting and perish in the cold all winter. The Tánaiste said to me I should not be raising these issues. I will make no apology for raising them on behalf of the people of County Kerry and Killarney or any part of the country.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy.

Comment on this

Can the Tánaiste not see it going on in County Cork? Maybe he cannot because he is all over the world, and maybe he has to be-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Go raibh maith agat.

Comment on this

-----but I can tell him it is happening in Cork the very same as in Kerry.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I ask the Tánaiste to respond.

Comment on this

All I want for the people of Kerry is fair play.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy-----

Comment on this

I have no gripe at all with the Ukrainian people.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, we are way over time.

Comment on this

I will not have anyone here saying I have.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Deputy, we are way over time.

Comment on this

First of all, I did not say the Deputy had and, second, I did not say he should-----

Comment on this

You said I should not have a gripe.

Comment on this

I did not. Go back over-----

Comment on this

You were surprised I raised it.

Comment on this

Go back over the blacks. You want to create a drama and create false assertions that I said you should not raise it.

Comment on this

I am creating no drama. I am telling the truth.

Comment on this

This is a new trope going around, that people have no right to raise these issues. I have seen it everywhere. I never said-----

Comment on this

That is what it sounded like.

Comment on this

I invite you to go back over the blacks, as we say, of this exchange. I challenge you to go back and find the sentence-----

Comment on this

I will challenge you any day of the week-----

Comment on this

No, I am sorry-----

Comment on this

-----and tell you the truth-----

Comment on this

Deputy, I did not interrupt you.

Comment on this

-----because I tell you the truth about what is going on every day that I come up here.

Comment on this

What I am trying to say, Deputy-----

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

The Tánaiste, please, through the Chair.

Comment on this

I am saying the Deputy made a false assertion that I said-----

Comment on this

I did not make anything false. It is false of the Tánaiste to say that.

Comment on this

Let the Tánaiste respond.

Comment on this

Will the Deputy let me reply, please?

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Tánaiste, through the Chair. Thank you.

Comment on this

The Deputy said that I said he should not have raised it. I did not say that.

Comment on this

You did say that. That was your import. You did.

Comment on this

I did not say that at all.

Comment on this

You did say it.

Comment on this

No, I did not. Go and check it.

Comment on this

That was the import.

Comment on this

You were surprised when I raised it.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

We are not doing this. Tánaiste, through the Chair, please.

Comment on this

On the medical card for Ukrainians, that is means-tested after nine months of being in the country. There is a rent-a-room scheme for €14,000 tax-free earnings already in place for Kerry people and everybody. The line that people cannot compete with €800 per month does not tally with me because that €800 is not for properties in the rental market but for people who decided, of their own free will, if they had a spare property, to make it available to a Ukrainian family because they were fleeing war. People made that decision out of the generosity of their hearts. I am not going to second-guess the generosity of Irish citizens who did that. The State feels it should give them some support.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Go raibh maith agat.

Comment on this

That €800 per month is not comparable to any rent anywhere.

Comment on this
Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Tá muid thar am.

Comment on this

It is a helping hand to those who generously gave up their properties.

Comment on this