We use Google Analytics to see which pages are read and how the site is used, so we know what to improve. This only runs if you accept. See our privacy notice for details.

Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Mother and baby homes redress

Summary

Deputy Catherine Connolly welcomes the Taoiseach’s departure and raises the newly announced compensation scheme for survivors of mother and baby institutions. The Taoiseach says the scheme is now open, apologises for the delay, and stresses that redress includes financial payment, support, and access to records, while Connolly challenges the six-month threshold and cites clinicians’ concerns.

Guím gach rath ar an Taoiseach leis an gcéad chéim eile ina thuras saoil. In ainneoin nach n-aontaím leis formhór an ama, thaitin sé go mór liom i gcónaí go raibh sé díreach gonta lena chuid freagraí.

Baineann an cheist atá agam inniu leis an scéim chúitimh a fógraíodh inniu do dhaoine a chaith tréimhsí in institiúidí máithreachais agus leanaí. My question to the Taoiseach relates to the compensation scheme announced today for the people who spent time in mother and baby institutions.

I use the word "institutions" because they certainly were not homes. Almost ten years later, the Taoiseach's Government and his Minister have utterly failed to bring in a scheme that is fair and just.

Back in 2014, it was announced that there would be a commission of investigation. Enda Kenny at the time, on 10 June, said:

This is an issue for Ireland because if it is not handled properly, in many ways, Ireland's soul will lie, like the babies of so many mothers, in an unmarked grave. It is important that we ... get this right.

Almost ten years later, we have made an utter mess out of it. That mess started with the commission of investigation, the failure to give the report to the survivors, the fact that it was leaked, the fact that they were told to download it and so on. The commission itself says the evidence of survivors was contaminated. Ten years later, and a year after we said we would bring in a scheme, we bring in a scheme that is exclusionary. It excludes all babies; all people who spent less than six months in these institutions. It is restrictive in every way possible. It is based on business and cost and has absolutely nothing to do with justice or what is right. If I were to give out to the Taoiseach and criticise him today, it would be for his policies. Over and over, he has been out of touch completely with the people on the ground - on this issue, the referendums, water and any number of other issues. This particular one upsets me on every level, personally and professionally, because the Government has utterly failed to learn. This was the chance to learn to do the scheme right. The Government messed up with Caranua, it messed up with the Magdalen redress scheme, which the High Court judge said was maladministered, and it is doing the exact same all over again. There are I cannot remember how many pages in the application form. The Government is insisting, for example, that people have photo ID. When they ring up to ask about that, they are told there is no way out of it. Even on that little issue, there is no humanity and no flexibility. The Government talks about a waiver. Nowhere is it explained in the application form what the waiver means.

Ten years later, with all that experience, it is simply unforgivable that the Government would persist today with a scheme that is unjust and unfair when it has the opportunity to correct it. The Government is in negotiations with the religious orders. The Taoiseach might give an update and confirm whether, when the Government has that completed, that money will be used to have a scheme that is inclusive of all and based on fairness and justice.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

The mother and baby homes institutions payment scheme opened for applications at 9 o'clock this morning. It has taken far too long but I am glad the scheme is now up and running. An extensive information and awareness campaign will take place both at home and abroad, and applicants will be supported throughout the application process with the information and advice they need. Where a person does not have photo identification, that will be dealt with empathetically and on a case-by-case basis.

We should not forget that redress is not just about financial compensation but also about other things such as, for example, medical cards and access to birth information, which is so important to people. Ten thousand people have already got information through the birth information and tracing service, which many people in this House opposed. Work continues in respect of Tuam, in particular, to carry out exhumations there in order to make sure that those children get a Christian and appropriate burial. Work is advanced too on the records memorial centre on Seán MacDermott Street, which I think will be extremely important too.

The scheme itself is for 34,000 people who spent time in mother and baby and county home institutions. It is projected to cost €800 million, so it is the largest scheme of its type. I do not believe it is restricted on that basis. It did go further than was recommended by either the commission of investigation or the interdepartmental group which followed.

As regards negotiations with the religious orders, the Government believes that all parties have a collective responsibility to respond to the legacy of these institutions. Last May, the Government approved a proposal from the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, to appoint Sheila Nunan to act on his behalf in leading negotiations with relevant religious bodies with a view to securing a financial contribution towards the payment scheme. Once those negotiations are over, a full report will be provided to the Government, which will then be able to decide what to do with the money, depending on how much there is.

Comment on this

I suppose it was too much to hope for the Taoiseach, when announcing he was going to resign, to depart from his written script on an issue of this importance. Thirty-four practising clinicians wrote to the Minister and pointed out that the six-month period was arbitrary and unacceptable. They work in the area of childhood trauma and pointed out that the impact of early trauma did not rest solely on duration within an institution. The letter, which stated "Childhood trauma ... includes separation from primary caregiver ... has the greatest impact" and so on, was sent to the Minister and was utterly ignored. I stood up here, tongue in cheek but actually serious, saying to Deputy Sherlock that he wasted six months getting up at night with his baby because, according to the Minister's scheme, the first six months are a tabula rasa; we simply waste our time mothering our babies for six months because it does not matter. Allow them to scream and roar - that is what the scheme says. In addition, many people are excluded, such as those who were boarded out, those who suffered from abuse because of their race and so on. The Taoiseach stands here today and presides over that. An intelligent government would learn from its mistakes. We have had any amount of opportunities to learn from our mistakes. Bearing in mind what a previous Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, outlined, the Taoiseach might, in his parting words, say this scheme is unjust, that it is a start but needs to be changed and we will clearly look at the report from Sheila Nunan to use that money to make the scheme inclusive.

Comment on this
Leo Varadkar The Taoiseach Fine Gael

To reiterate, redress comes in many different forms. Financial compensation is only one element of that. There are more aspects to it than this. The overwhelming priority and need, which has been expressed through extensive engagement with survivors, is access to records and information about their births and their early lives. About 10,000 people have already received that information, with more to come. I am glad that has been possible. In relation to engagement with religious orders, when we come to an agreement with them, should that be possible, it will then be up to the Government of the time to make a decision as to how that money can best be spent. When it comes to medical cards, the legislation underpinning the scheme provides that anyone who spent 180 days or more in one of these institutions is eligible for health supports in the form of an enhanced medical card. We are keen to press ahead with that without any unnecessary delay.

Comment on this