Referendum result and debate on carers
Deputy McGrath demanded a debate on the referendum results, arguing the Government had mishandled the wording and misled voters, especially on care. The Tánaiste defended the constitutional process, said the wording would not have harmed carers, and highlighted ongoing spending on special education, carers and disability supports.
It is beyond shocking that no time has been set aside this week to discuss the recent referendum results. I and the Rural Independent Group called for a full debate on the topic. However, it seems that the political establishment, which includes all Opposition parties apart from Aontú, wants to conveniently forget about the result. The reality is that the referendum results mark the largest "No" vote in referendum history, with figures of 73% in the referendum on care and 67% in the referendum on the family. The Government parties and the legions of supporting NGOs could only convince an average of 13% of the eligible voters to vote "Yes", dropping to 7% in Donegal, despite all the parties' efforts. These figures underscore the detachment of Ireland's political establishment from the political realities faced by ordinary people. There is a glaring political disconnect, which is a colossal issue. People saw that and continue to see it. The hypocrisy of those who advocated a "Yes" vote but are now distancing themselves from it is pointed out by examples such as Senator Lisa Chambers from Fianna Fáil. This is astonishing. Two Fine Gael Senators did not vote at all, despite campaigning for a "Yes" vote. Do they take the people for complete fools?
I am demanding dedicated Dáil time for an in-depth analysis of how the Government and political parties have become so out of touch in this country. The Dáil must discuss the implications of this vote, the message from the people and the ramifications for governance. The House must reflect on the nationwide concerns and place emphasis on the real question. Will the well-funded political parties repay €23 million to the taxpayers for the referendums? No one requested these referendums apart from the Government's fancy assemblies. Serious questions have been raised as to why Ministers and Government spokespersons constantly misled the Dáil. That includes the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin. Spokespersons misled the Dáil and the Irish people.
Comment on this
It is a fact; it is well known. The advice from the Attorney General and others was withheld. These questions must be discussed. For example, shocking files obtained from the Department of Finance under freedom of information suggest that the wording of the amendment on care was deliberately chosen by the Government to avoid a concrete and mandatory obligation on the State. Imagine that the Government would do that to the most vulnerable people and their carers and treat them in such a fashion, by trying to undermine and sabotage them by putting such a wording in. These same people were then forced by the Government to canvass for a "Yes" vote. This made Family Carers Ireland seem ridiculous.
Even now, after the referendum is over, the Government is avoiding accountability in this House by avoiding the opportunity for debate. However, if the result had gone the other way, the Government would be dancing around Dublin Castle. None of the political leaders had the manners or respect to stay in Dublin Castle or any other count centre for the final result. The Government has got a lashing from the people. The Taoiseach has taken his accountability and run for the hills. I would appreciate it if the Tánaiste ran after him.
Comment on this
I am in no doubt about that, Deputy.
Deputy McGrath has called for a Dáil debate. The people are superior to the Dáil and Seanad on constitutional matters. That is the great thing about De Valera's Constitution of 1937. He gave the power of amendment to the people and he did so in an era of fascism. Many people never want to give credit to the Constitution of 1937. When the rest of Europe was going fascist, a genuinely republican constitution was enacted, with the power of amendment resting with the people. Of course, there is also judicial interpretation, which means it is a live document. The Judiciary has interpreted the Constitution in the decades since.
The people have decided in this case. I am comfortable with the fact that the people have decided. I respect their decision. It is open to political parties, the Government and the Oireachtas. It is this Oireachtas that put the question to the public. We can go right back to 1993 when we had the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women. Then there was the Constitutional Review Group report of 1996; the all-party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution tenth progress report of 2006; the second report of the Constitutional Convention of 2013; the Department of Justice and Equality's task force of 2016; the Oireachtas justice committee report of 2018; the report of the Citizens' Assembly on Gender Equality of 2021; and the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Gender Equality of 2022. All of those, going right back to 1993, with successive Members of Oireachtas across all parties, agreed on proposing the deletion of those articles from the Constitution. This was the first Government that put the question. People may argue about the precise formula that was used to put the question to the people but we were acting on a succession of reports that had broad consensus. Now it seems that the public has taken a decision. People appear to be not as exercised about those specific articles as Members of successive Oireachtais might have thought. I accept the decision of the people.
With respect, it is not fair for the Deputy to suggest that people were misled in this House or that Ministers misled anyone. The legal advice we received is extensive and covers far more than the one letter that was published on the eve of the referendum. Without question, all amendments to the Constitution will be subject to judicial interpretation. That is obvious and was said during the course of the debate.
Regarding the issue of prioritisation of allocations, the Oireachtas should allocate resources, not the courts. In our constitutional framework, it is the Oireachtas that should allocate and prioritise resources, whether to education, health or wherever else, in the public expenditure realm. That has always been the way.
Comment on this
The Tánaiste said the people have spoken. Of course we know that, but he still refuses to have a debate on the matter here. How can the Government and every party in this House be so detached and out of touch? They talked about durable. We hear a phony Opposition talk about different issues letting on to be different. Everyone is on the one page. We cannot have a debate on immigration because everyone is the same. Anybody with another narrative is put down. The Government got its answer from the people. They are wiser than what the Government thought. The Government deliberately misled them. It would not give the Attorney General's advice and published it after the event. Imagine that. Imagine trying to put that to the people, that this advice was kept secret. However, the advice did come out. The Government deliberately got a wording for the amendment on care that would damage carers and would not give any kind of commitment. The word "strive" was deliberately used to ensure that funding would not have to be provided and that the Government would not have responsibility. The Taoiseach made other damning remarks about carers and who should be caring. The Government deliberately put that wording in. The Tánaiste talks about respecting the Constitution, the Oireachtas and the people. The Government is not respecting the people and the people have completely lost respect for the Government. The sooner the Government realises this and tries to get back in touch with the people by calling an election, the better. The Government has lost its way and is confused. The deliberate misleading and deception are disgraceful and not acceptable.
Comment on this
The wording would not have damaged carers. I am not going to rekindle the debate but I contest very strongly the Deputy's assertion. The Government continues to spend on special needs, carers and disability more generally. Thousands of special education teachers and special needs assistants have been appointed since this Government took office and continue to be appointed. Approximately 25% of the education budget is now allocated to special needs education. This is the highest ever, even in percentage terms, of the overall education budget. Some 1,300 new special classes and seven new special schools have been put in place. Regarding health and so on, a range of measures have been taken. Ultimately, resources get allocated through the Oireachtas and budgets every year. If it is allowed to be the exclusive remit of the courts, there is a danger that we would not get a targeted, focused or strategic approach to dealing with the issues of society. This is why people elect parliamentarians. They elect them to pass annual budgets and to prioritise the allocation of resources. That is the key issue in terms of how much is put into a constitution and how much is reserved for the democratically elected representatives of the people.