EU migration pact sovereignty
Deputy Tóibín argued the EU migration pact would cede Irish sovereignty and asked what it would cost, while the Taoiseach defended EU cooperation on migration and rejected the sovereignty critique. The exchange became highly partisan, with repeated interruptions and accusations about Sinn Féin and Fine Gael positions on Europe.
Last week, the Taoiseach made a full commitment to supporting Ukraine's sovereignty. In the same week, he made an argument for Ireland to cede sovereignty to the European Union in the EU migration pact. Sovereignty is no small thing. It means that the people of this country can self-determine the laws that govern us, they can influence the elected representatives and hold them to account. When decisions are made in Brussels or Berlin, Irish people find it very hard to influence those decisions and we certainly cannot hold the decision-makers to account. The banking crash was a perfect example of this. The EU forced billions of euro of bailouts on Irish citizens. It did enormous damage to this country and we are still recovering, with a lost generation of investment in health, housing and infrastructure. The Government also signed up to greenhouse gas emission targets but it will fall well short of those legally binding targets by 2030. This will cost the State hundreds of millions of euro in fines.
In answer to an Aontú parliamentary question, we learned that the EU is fining Ireland tens of millions of euro at the moment. The EU fined Ireland €2.5 billion for wastewater issues, €1.5 million on environmental impact assessments, €17 million for the Derrybrien wind farm, €2 million for failure in respect of the money laundering directive, €2.5 million for failures regarding the audiovisual media services directive and €500,000 in relation to the European electronic communications code. The State is currently in court fighting fines regarding what is happening in the bogs. The Government is now looking to sign up to further EU commitments and it is already failing on the commitments it signed up to and getting fined.
The immigration policy of this country so far has been a disaster. The Government has failed consistently to differentiate between those who need help and those who do not. Aontú parliamentary questions have shown that, in the last five years, 85% of people who received deportation orders never had them actioned. I have that parliamentary question from the Taoiseach when he was Minister for Justice, so he should not shake his head. We found out that 5,000 people came through Dublin Airport with no travel documents last year, and we also found out that the Government is not asking 75% of asylum seekers how they came into the country. Now, the Government is seeking to outsource this immigration policy to the EU. At the heart of that migration pact is the idea of a mandatory solidarity pool. States must accept immigrants or financially contribute. Numbers and amounts of money are based on population and GDP. Our GDP, as we know, is already artificially elevated. We find it impossible to accommodate the migrants who come to this country. Given that Ireland is already being fined all over the place in terms of our commitments, which we are not meeting, how much will it cost the State to sign up to the EU migration pact? What are the minimum and maximum amounts?
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I can shake my head if I wish to because for some of what I heard, it was quite a challenge to just keep my head movement to that. On this idea that we are ceding sovereignty and that people in Brussels are making decisions - does Deputy Tóibín not want to be a member of the European Parliament? Is he not running for election because he wants to be there making-----
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We do but we do not want to cede any more sovereignty.
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What are you going to do there?
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Let us not go down the kind of Brexit Britain road here of Brussels bad, Ireland good. The reality is we are members of the European Union. After I finish taking questions, I will head to Brussels where I will participate in a decision-making process with other European Heads of Government. Members of the European Parliament, which the Deputy aspires to be, will vote democratically on behalf of the people of Europe. Ireland appoints a Commissioner to the European Commission. It is not about outsourcing. This country took a proud decision - I am not sure what the Deputy's position on it was - to join the European Union.
When you join up to rules and laws, you have to abide by them. There are court systems in place in that regard and sanctions if you do not. That of course puts member states, including Ireland, under pressure from time to time but they are rules and laws we signed up to. Nobody imposed them. Nobody said we must do this. We signed up, opted in, and chose to do that. That is part of how a rule-based system works.
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I cannot hear the Deputy.
When it comes to migration, it is fanciful in the extreme to think that this small little island with, thankfully, an open border - which we all worked very hard to protect during the Brexit process - could just go it alone regarding global and EU migration and that we would continue with the system in which we cannot effectively return anybody, in many ways, in terms of secondary movements and where, as the Deputy pointed out, the deportation system can be challenging at times. To sign up to a significant overhaul of the rules would result in a firmer migration system - a fair but firmer one - and Ireland would disproportionately benefit because so many people who come to Ireland seeking refuge come here from what are called secondary movements. There is no doubt following my engagements in Europe in the past week - and I doubt there will be any after my engagements this week - but that Ireland stands to be one of the big beneficiaries of the EU migration pact. We will have plenty of time in this House to debate and discuss that.
I wish to be clear about our migration system.
As I think the Deputy will know, it is not possible to put costings on these things. The dynamic effects are that Ireland will benefit in some ways and not in others-----
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-----but overall will be the better for it. We will have an opportunity to tease through in painstaking detail the EU migration pact at the justice committee and on the floor of Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann. Far from ceding sovereignty, the people's representatives, including the Deputy, me and everyone else in this House, will vote "Tá" or "Níl" on whether we want to go it alone or work with our European partners in accepting the fact that migration is a massive crisis of our time. It is a humanitarian crisis and an economic and social challenge and we need to work together.
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The people with the Taoiseach's political background probably said in 1921 that it was fanciful for a small country like ours to go it alone and be sovereign. This is the key issue here. The point is-----
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I asked the Taoiseach how much it would cost the State to sign into the EU migration pact and he stated, in front of the Dáil, that he does not know. That is an absolutely disgraceful answer from a Government that has already made a political commitment to sign up to that pact. It is an incredible situation. This is potentially the Taoiseach's first blank cheque with respect to the cost to the country. Given that we are already paying fines to beat the band for failure to meet commitments the Government cannot hold to, we, the citizens, will have to pay for it in the future. The Government is already incinerating hundreds of millions of euro in waste, including €2.25 billion on the national children's hospital and €300 million on metro north and the shovel has not even been put into the ground. The Government spent €22 million on ventilators that do not work and is spending €50,000 a year on a warehouse to store them at the moment. We have more than 100 electric buses-----
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-----that have not worked a day because someone forgot to put in the planning application for them. Now, the Government is saying to the people of Ireland-----
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-----that it does not know how much it will cost. That is an absolute disgrace. How much will it cost the citizens to pay for the EU migration pact in the future?
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In the minute available to me, it is not possible to deal with the electric buses, the metro, the national children's hospital, waste and a range of other issues that Deputy Tóibín went on an interesting journey around. However, it is absolutely beneath him to slur my political tradition and political party in this House. Let us look at the party the Deputy spent most of his time in and his stance. If it was up to him we would not-----
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I was in Fianna Fáil, as was the Taoiseach, once upon a time.
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That is not the case. That is not true.
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You voted against it every single time.
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It is a statement of fact that Sinn Féin has opposed every European referendum since we joined the European Union, including the one to join the European Union. That is the truth.
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It is so utterly dull, that we are hearing this in the Dáil. New Taoiseach, old fogey, young fogey.
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It suits Fine Gael and Sinn Féin to make this about those two political parties. There are other political parties here. This is one of the few times I get a chance to ask a question and it is an important question.
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I was distracted about the personal slurs Deputy McDonald made about my character, rather than engaging on political issues.
In response to Deputy Tóibín, we are proudly seeking to join the EU migration pact. It is good for the country and for Europe. We are looking forward to teasing through and debating the detail in this House, the Seanad and at the justice committee and we will continue to do so.