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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Online abuse and social media regulation

Summary

Michael Healy-Rae raises the harm caused by lies, abuse and intimidation on social media, including the abuse he and his family received. The Taoiseach strongly agrees, condemns online misogyny and abuse, and says Ireland is moving into a new era of regulation with the media regulator and online safety code.

I will not mince my words about this issue. I will be very factual. I am going to call something out here today. I want to see what the Taoiseach, the Government and the rest of the people inside in this House think of it. Why is it becoming acceptable in the Ireland of today that people can go on social media platforms and say whatever they like about whomever they like? It can be about members of An Garda Síochána or national or local politicians. Just because a person sits in a car, puts a mobile phone - like this godforsaken stupid thing here - in front of them and goes online and says whatever they like, thousands of people will then come along and swallow up what is being said and believe it. People can say outrageous and hurtful things. They can attack people's families. They can attack individuals.

If the Taoiseach wants to know why I am cross today, I will tell him. People can say whatever the hell they like about me because it will not worry me or take one minute out of my head space. It will not bother me. I do not like it when they attack my family because they are my family. When they attack my friends, I do not like that. I am going to say this, however. It is not easy to say it, but I will say it. My late mother died in 2015. She was a highly respectable woman. She could speak seven languages. She never said anything bad about any human being. She supported all of us in every way she possibly could. She was a nice lady. When I saw one night her image being used in a derogatory way and in a political way, that pushed it over the line for me. Will the Taoiseach outline what is going to happen to social media platforms, including TikTok and all the others like it, that people can go on to? I am not going to say anything about any individual here, but there are people here who have had untruths told about them. Is it the case that just because people are Ministers, TDs or county councillors, they cannot say anything because it would look bad or would seem as if we are against free speech?

I am not in favour of the hate speech legislation. I voted against it. I am not for it, and I would never support it. I am against people coming out and telling barefaced lies. We had a situation in the local election campaign in Kerry, particularly in the Castleisland area. There are those who might have thought it was funny, but it was not because people's lives were affected. People's families, including wives and children, had horrible things being said about them every day. Is this supposed to be socially acceptable in Ireland today?

Well, I will not accept it.

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I am asking each and every one of you not to accept it. Just because the Taoiseach is a Minister and the leader of a party, does that mean he has to accept that there are lies about him and that people can say horrible things-----

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Deputy.

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-----about people they really do not even know? It is ridiculous.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

The Taoiseach to respond.

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I am asking the Taoiseach if he will please try to do something to bring about a bit of normality to this situation in order that people cannot be telling blatant lies about other people.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I ask the Taoiseach to respond within his time.

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Simon Harris The Taoiseach Fine Gael

Well said, indeed, Deputy Healy-Rae. I thank you for saying it. I am really sorry, as I know everybody in this House is, to hear of the abuse that the Deputy and his family had to put up, particularly in the context of the comments about and images of his late mother. That is utterly despicable and reprehensible. There is not a Member on any side of this House who does not think that. You are not gormless when you come into this House and make those points.

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Peter Burke Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment Fine Gael

Hear, hear.

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Simon Harris The Taoiseach Fine Gael

It is a seriously important issue. It is fair to say that impacts on nearly all of us in different ways, if we are being honest. It is an issue that impacts people right across our country. It is an issue that particularly impacts children and younger people. There is a level of misogyny and sexism, and there are really serious issues in the context of vile online abuse. People are being targeted by faceless online users who seek to intimate people, silence them, stop them from saying something, get inside their minds and knock them off their stride. I am really concerned about the impact, as I think we all are, that this is having, and not only people who are public representatives. It is okay for us to say it has an impact. Breaking news: politicians are humans. There is also the major impact it can have on young people who are bullied online. Bullying used to be something that took place, as it still can, in a physical way. That was and is horrific, but you would remove yourself from a situation. It is now something that can follow you around. It is something that kids can take home in their schoolbags and their pockets and it will be there with them.

I want to say that the level of nasty and negative comments online is alarming. There has been robust political debate in this country since the foundation of the State. We go at it hammer and tongs in here. I would like to think that we do so a couple of times a week. That is very different, though, from the hateful, nasty and negative comments online. I appeal to people in this country - I know the Deputy and everyone else here does as well - to stop and think before they hit that button to publish horrible comments about another human being. You just do not have to do it. Why are we doing it? Why has this become some sort of norm? We all need to check ourselves, myself included, from time to time. We all need to check ourselves in the context of our language and how we go about our debates. Language is important and words matter.

What is the Government going to do? That is a fair question. Online safety is a key priority. We now finally have a media regulator. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, has done very good work in this area. The regulator is called Coimisiún na Meán. At the heart of it is a new online safety framework which can be used to hold platforms to account and which will ensure that we significantly reduce harmful content online. A draft online safety code was published by the commission in May. It is intended that the code will be formally adopted later this year. It is designed to work in conjunction with various laws to ensure that platform supervision and the enforcement of regulations are delivered effectively. In the very brief time available, I note that it sets out the actions that video-sharing platforms, some of which the Deputy has named, such as TikTok, Facebook, Instagram and others have to take to protect users. It also has the ability to hit people where it works, which is in their pockets.

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I thank the Taoiseach. The editors of newspapers and producers of television programmes are held to account-----

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Yes. Absolutely. Hear, hear.

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-----in that what comes out has to be truthful. It cannot be lies. There are legal implications. Why are we allowing a situation where the social media companies can broadcast whatever and there are no repercussions? That is wrong. That is what we have to get back to. We have to get back to telling the truth and being fair in our comments. We as a society have to say that we are not going to tolerate it. We are not going to put up any longer with faceless cowards. If these people want to take us on politically or if they want to be politicians, there is no problem in the world with that. Come along and tackle us in the same way that I will tackle the Taoiseach later on about policies. We will have our arguments, the Taoiseach will have his opinion, Sinn Féin will have its opinion and we will all do our own thing and fight our own cases, but we will do so in a fair, honest and direct way. We will not be cowardly in how we do it. A long time ago, I made the mistake of calling these people keyboard warriors.

They are not warriors; they are cowards. They are hiding behind this dirty rotten thing and they think they can say whatever they like to the nation. I am sending a clear message out today: that vile rubbish and bile will not be tolerated by normal people.

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Catherine Connolly An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Deputy. I call the Taoiseach to respond.

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Whether it is the electorate or the proper media outlets, it cannot be tolerated.

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Simon Harris The Taoiseach Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Healy-Rae. We all knowledge that the advent of technology, online media and social media have brought benefits. We all see it in our own lives. Deputy Healy-Rae gets his message out to the people in Kerry that way as well. He is right, however; it cannot be the Wild West. There must be rules, laws, sanctions and regulations as to how that still relatively new structure works. What I am telling Deputy Healy-Rae and the people of this country today is that we are moving into a new era in relation to that. We now have our media regulator. We have a draft online safety code. It is not fluff - not that the Deputy suggested it is - because failure to comply with it can lead to significant financial sanctions of up to €20 million or 10% of turnover. Continued non-compliance can lead to criminal sanctions for company directors. That is extremely important. There must be a link between a platform and an individual - a human being. That is important too. We have put significant resources into the commission to enable it to hit the ground running. There are now more than 100 people working for an coimisiún, with more being recruited. Now is the time to allow it to establish itself and to work very closely with the European Commission to establish this new regulatory structure that the Deputy, quite rightly, outlined is required.

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