Carers from all over County Wexford have asked me to make their position known. I have had calls from Duncannon, Duncormick, Kilmore, Rosslare, Oilgate, Enniscorthy, New Ross, Wexford town and all over County Wexford. They have asked me to represent the hurt, rage, disbelief and disappointment they feel at this Government’s choice not to reorganise and recognise their contribution and abolish the means test for carer's allowance. They feel their worth has not been acknowledged even though the Government has widened or increased the threshold - many of these carers will never make the threshold - particularly because of the false sense of expectation the Minister gave them during the referendum on carers. They sent me a document which they want me to read to the Minister. They are her words:

I know there’s more to do. There really is. And the fact is, if we vote Yes on Friday, that strengthens my hand to do more for carers.

What we need to do is sit down and fully assess the contribution that carers are making to our society and how we can support them in the work that they do, because some people cannot work because they’re caring full-time for somebody who has a disability, or maybe an elderly person, or whatever reason they need that support.

“We need to just deal with this issue once and for all,” the Minister said.

In a press release, the Minister was quoted as saying:

Fine Gael takes great pride in delivering a more modern, inclusive Ireland and these referendums are a key part of that. It is so important that our constitution reflects the Ireland of today - an Ireland that recognises that all families are different, an Ireland that places huge value on the role played by our carers.

We have never actually had a discussion in this House about that referendum that cost us €20 million but failed, and it failed dismally.

The carers believe that the Government and the Minister are speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They want the Minister to explain why she has chosen not to recognise all carers and why she thinks it is okay to disregard their worth and leave them solely dependent in many cases and make them vulnerable through dependence on others for income. Why does she reject the research on abolishing the means test? This research, commissioned by family carers who supported the Minister and her Government in the referendum, was carried out by Maynooth University. Family Carers Ireland supported the Minister. Will she respond to the carers who feel so let down?

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I can be accused of many things but speaking out of both sides of my mouth is not normally what I do. I have been engaging with carers since I became Minister for Social Protection in 2020. I must say again that family carers play a hugely important role and I have been committed to supporting them in that role. I have worked hard in recent years in enhancing the supports we have provided to them. I am well aware of the stories to which the Deputy refers. I meet carers regularly; I meet the carers' groups and the carers themselves. In each and every budget since I became Minister for Social Protection, the proposals I have delivered have come directly from talking to them and engaging with the carers and the carers' groups. Every Deputy in this House meets carers on a regular basis and I am no different. We all know well the vital work that they carry out. During my time as Minister for Social Protection I have stood up for our family carers in recognition of the incredible and often unseen work they do in our society. In this budget I am increasing the annual carer's support grant to €2,000. That is now at its highest level ever. I am extending the carer's benefit to self-employed workers. That is new and has not happened before. Self-employed people who have to give up work to look after somebody will be able to get the carer's benefit. I am making carer's allowance a qualifying payment for fuel allowance. That is another request from the groups.

That does not mean they get it. It is means-tested.

I am increasing the domiciliary care allowance to €360 per month and, most importantly, I am expanding the carer's allowance means test to €625 per week for a single person and €1,250 per week for a couple. These changes will mean that I have effectively doubled the income limits for carer's allowance over the lifetime of this Government, enabling thousands more carers to qualify for a payment. I hear our carers and recognise them. It is by working with them that I have been able to ensure that our carers have access to a pension for the first time ever, and rightly so. I am pleased to say that since I made this change last year, almost 2,200 carers have benefited from that with regard to the State pension. That is the result of listening to our carers and working with them.

I understand the concern around the means test. The carer's allowance means test is an issue which carers have raised consistently over the years and it is being raised here again today. I was the first Minister in 14 years to make changes to the carer's allowance means test, in 2022. As I outlined, I have increased it.

Those were the carers’ words. I fully understand why they believe the Minister is speaking out of both sides of her mouth. It is a means test. It is on the means of someone else’s income, rather than that of the carer who is actually delivering the care. This is means-testing the income of the household. It may be means in which the carer does not even share. We are talking out of both sides of our mouths every day of the week when we talk about vulnerable women and 95% of our care is delivered by women. Yet the Minister has them in a position where if their partner or someone else in the household is over the threshold for the means test, they must beg for the money to go for a cup of coffee should the opportunity arise. Does the Minister understand why they feel so vulnerable and disregarded? Family Carers Ireland has told the Minister that, according to research by Maynooth University, those who provide care to the most vulnerable in this country save the State €20 billion per annum.

Yet the Minister continues with a means test that would give them, if they were caring for one child, €248 per week, less than €12,000 per year, to save the State €20 billion. Is it any wonder their mental health is suffering from the kind of disregard this Government shows them? It is no thanks-----

We have to have silence in the Gallery, please. I call the Minister.

I do not know if the Deputy reads all the papers but carers welcomed the changes I made in the budget.

Those who get it.

Please let the Minister answer.

But it is a means test.

Please let the Minister answer.

The changes I made in the budget mean more will get it. I meet them and have talked directly to them. I fully-----

Does that mean some do not deserve it because they cannot get it under the means test? Is that what the Minister is saying?

You have had your time.

Please, Deputy Murphy, you are out of order. Will you let the Minister answer?

I see first-hand the challenges that carers face.

Then abolish the means test.

There is a mother in the Gallery and I know the challenges she faces because she told me. It is not easy.

Abolish it.

We have made considerable changes but we are on a journey. We have to do more. I accept that but we cannot do everything on the one day. We have made substantial changes to the carer's support grant. It has been increased. The carer's allowance is now a qualifying payment for the fuel allowance. Domiciliary care allowance has been increased; I have increased it by €50 during my term as Minister. I have provided the pension for carers. I talk to carers all the time. I am their voice in government and I have made their case known. I have improved their situation. Please do not come in here, Deputy, and act as if I am not aware of any of these things. I talk to people too. I talk to people every day and hear their concerns. I know the mother who sent me a text after the budget, the mother who carries her child in her arms when she comes into this House-----

Talk is cheap.

It is not talk. You are wrong.

We all know what the answer is.

All this shouting is bringing the House into disrepute. Can we move on to Deputy Mattie McGrath, please?