Under the Constitution, the total number of Members of this House has to be at least one per 30,000 of the population. The Economic and Social Research Institute is forecasting that by the year 2040, Ireland's population will have grown by more than 900,000 based on current numbers. The CSO predicts a highest growth scenario over the next 30 years of double that number, which would put Ireland's population at more than 7 million in 2057. That would mean that the number of TDs would have to increase from the current total of 160 to almost 240. This Chamber would not be able to accommodate that number of Deputies. We would have to build a new Chamber to cater for the increased number of TDs, provide additional offices as well as funding for all of the associated parliamentary and support staff for each elected Member, the cost of which would be hundreds of millions of euro.

Recently the keynote speaker at the Clifden Arts Festival, the former Attorney General, Minister for Justice and Tánaiste, Senator Michael McDowell, made a very interesting point. He noted that if the United Kingdom used the same criteria to determine the number of MPs in its Parliament, namely one MP to every 30,000 people, then instead of the current 650 members of parliament, the House of Commons would have 2,400 members. The current figure of 650 members in the UK Parliament has remained constant for almost half a century, with little increase in the past ten years. Spain, Germany, France and the Netherlands have an even lower proportion of members of parliament to population than the UK. So too has Italy, which held a constitutional referendum in 2020 that resulted in a reduction in the number of members of both of its houses. This was passed by a 70% majority, something that I could easily see being repeated in Ireland if we had a referendum to amend our Constitution.

I am not going to suggest what the number of TDs should be limited to. That question should be handed over to the Electoral Commission to examine and I ask all Members to support this. Will the Minister, his party and their partners in government agree to ask the Electoral Commission to look into the idea of placing a cap on the number of TDs and putting this to a referendum?

I am sure that regardless of the size of any future Dáil, the Deputy still anticipates and wants to play a very lively role within it and the question he poses this morning reminds me why it is very likely that he will do so. As he may be aware, this is something that An Coimisiún Toghcháin has indicated a willingness to consider. In a report published in August 2023, the commission outlined that in advance of the next commission, it wants to commence what it has described as a "national conversation" - I am sure many Members of this Dáil will want to participate in that, including the Deputy - on whether Dáil Éireann should continue to grow to match the increase in population . If that were to happen in the way that he described, the Dáil would grow by around two TDs per year over the next number of years.

As I answer the question, it is important not to lose sight of something that is very positive. The reason we are seeing a growth in the size of the Dáil is that we are a growing country with a growing population. There are more people living here who deserve and require more representation. That is very positive and that can be at the heart of our prosperity and growth in the years ahead. My own view is that the growth in population will continue to require the level of representation that our own Dáil provides at the moment. I would be reluctant to put any cap on that at the moment. I assure the Deputy Grealish Leader's Questions and engagements like this are hard enough but if I came in here and saw the Visitor's Gallery full of TDs as well, I am sure it would make them even more demanding. If that is something we have to contend with as a consequence of our country continuing to grow, that would be a good thing. I will be interested to see what An Coimisiún Toghcháin recommends. I would not like to see unlimited growth but, on the other hand, the level of representation that we have within our country at the moment does broadly work and I would not like to see any sudden change in that regard.

Over the past number of years, the Government has put several referendums to the people, mostly recently and notably the 39th and 40th amendments that were defeated earlier this year. The latest referendums were badly thought out and impossible to clearly explain. The resounding "No" vote made it clear that the people are not prepared to alter the Constitution without good reason. A proposal to cap the number of TDs, bringing Ireland's Parliament into line with other EU countries, is a question that the people should have the opportunity to decide. It is something that should be explored further by the Electoral Commission. I ask the Minister to give a commitment to at least explore this matter further. It is a question that should be put to the people. If we are going to see our Parliament grow up to 240 Members by 2050, that is going to put a huge strain on the Oireachtas. This Chamber will become redundant. We could be talking about hundreds of millions of euro to build a new Chamber and to provide support staff. It is important that we have a debate on this in the new Dáil. If I am elected, I will keep pushing it. If not, maybe somebody else will but the question should be put to the people in a referendum. Let the people decide how many Members should be in this House, not us in this House.

In the various referenda that the Deputy referred to, the people have shown care in making big changes to our Constitution. They have, at other times, shown a commitment to and support for how the Oireachtas currently represents them. In the Deputy's constituency, and in all of our constituencies, we frequently have to explain the work that we do, make the case for the work that we do and for the time we spend here in the Dáil and in the committees of the Oireachtas. I would take care with any changes that weaken the link between constituents and the politicians that serve them because, by and large, it is a balance that we have got right within our country. As I said earlier, our Electoral Commission is looking into this matter. I am sure it plans to publish a paper or to publish some interventions in this regard in the time ahead and I have no doubt they will prompt, and be a catalyst for, the discussion the Deputy is looking for.