Government spending and phone pouches
Deputy McDonald attacked Government waste on projects such as the bike shelter and school phone pouches, arguing money was being squandered instead of funding essentials like youth mental health. The Taoiseach defended the public finances and the phone-pouch scheme, saying it was optional, supported by schools, and designed to help pupils' wellbeing. The exchange ended as members moved on to the next Leader's Question.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his forbearance and patience, as ever.
The Government is a serial waster of the public’s money. Its waste leaves people shaking their heads in disbelief. The lack of accountability angers people. There has been no accountability for the €336,000 bicycle shelter, nor for the €1.4 million security hut or the doubling of costs for modular housing for Ukrainians, and that is before we even mention the children’s hospital. Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil squander taxpayers’ hard-earned money and when they are caught out or challenged, they just shrug their shoulders and dismiss the public’s anger. Perhaps, though, the most mind-boggling example of its waste is its decision to spend €9 million on phone pouches for secondary school students. Contrast this with its failure to fund schools correctly as they struggle to keep the lights and the heating on. There was only €10 million additional money for that. Worse still, the Government could only find less than €3 million for youth mental health services, which are on the floor.
When the Taoiseach was called out for this waste, he claimed this €9 million pouch investment was a once-off cost. The big message in the Minister, Deputy Norma Foley’s article on thejournal.ie. defending the Government’s decision was that "€9m for phone pouches is a significant once-off investment". That is not true, as we have learned from documents obtained by my colleague, Deputy Pearse Doherty, through freedom of information, FOI. What the Minister failed to tell the public was that there will, in fact, be a cost of almost €2 million for these pouches annually. The Government knew this, yet it continues to peddle the spin that this was a once-off investment.
To make matters worse, these documents also show that the Government was presented with several other common-sense options for dealing with mobile phones in schools. Option one, that phones be left in students’ bags with students not allowed to use them during the day, had a cost to the public purse of zero euro. Option two, that phones be handed in at a central point, had a cost to the public purse of zero euro. Option three, the placement of phones in student lockers, had a cost to the public purse of zero euro beyond the cost of the locker. So, the Government turned down three common-sense solutions that would not have cost the public a single red cent and instead went with an option that will cost taxpayers €9 million initially and then a further €2 million every single year. You could not make this up. The incompetence is off the charts.
Dressing this up as a mental health measure is so insulting to young people in mental health crisis who are locked out of the services, care and supports they desperately need. What this shows again is that this Government cannot be trusted to spend the public’s money wisely, cannot be straight with people about its waste and refuses to be accountable for its mess.
Dúirt an Rialtas linn gur costas aon-uaire a bheadh sa chaiteachas €9 milliún ar phócaí d'fhóin phóca. Ní raibh sé sin fíor. Tuigtear anois go mbeidh costas bliantúil beagnach €2 milliún anois ar an phobal. Why do the Taoiseach and his Government continue to tell people that the €9 million spend on phone pouches is a once-off cost when they know this is not the case? I appeal to him to scrap this scheme and invest the money in mental health services for our young people.
Comment on this
I thank Deputy McDonald for raising this issue. I will make a number of points. First, when the Deputy talks about the state of our economy in terms of the use of taxpayers' money, she leaves out a number of facts. She leaves out the fact that this is a country running a budget surplus and that we have managed to put aside billions of euro to protect people from future economic shocks. That decision is looking even better today than it was yesterday in light of global issues. The Deputy forgets that we are able to give people back some of their own money as well. I look forward to debating this Government's record on managing our economy and the public purse versus Sinn Féin's policy of spending it all and leaving nothing for the buffer times or if there are any transatlantic trade shocks, a policy which, quite frankly, looks utterly foolish and ridiculous today.
My second is that the issue of phone pouches was not invented in the Department of Education, in government or by any political party. This came about by listening directly to school principals. I am sure that Deputy McDonald, like me, listens to the radio and I am sure she heard the students on "Morning Ireland" a couple of days back after this announcement talking about the benefit they have found from these pouches. I am sure the Deputy has met school principals, including the principal of De La Salle College in Churchtown which introduced these self-locking pouches after staff reported an increase in disruption and how time-consuming it was. The principal highlighted how this initiative had improved the social skills of the students and had seen an increase in participation in extracurricular activities.
This is a Government that is listening. Deputy McDonald talks about listening and how important it is to listen to people on the front line. We have listened to school principals, teachers and students. We have had feedback from many students - I am sure they will be in touch with the Deputy today - in schools that have benefited from this initiative. That is where the idea came from. This is not an obligatory or mandatory measure. Nobody is going to demand that schools take school pouches. If a school wants to avail of this, it will cost about 20 quid per student. That is a €20 investment in the mental health and well-being of a student.
Please do not say to me that it is in any way insulting to link this to mental health. It is not me linking it to mental health; it is the young people themselves. This is about a Government listening and responding because right across the country, different schools have tried different initiatives to deal with smartphones. Deputy McDonald is right that some schools have adopted the suggestions she made, while other schools have tried different approaches. It is important that we help and assist in that regard.
The next point I will make is this. Deputy McDonald suggests this all happened in isolation and it was the only investment in education when this Government has invested a huge amount in education, including in the most recent budget. We have allocated €12 billion to the Department of Education. This will help students, parents and education staff and it includes €51 million to extend the free school book scheme to students, benefiting 940,000 students. Sinn Féin called on us to increase the capitation rate and we have increased it from €200 to €224 per student in primary school and from €345 to €386 per student in post-primary school. This 12% increase will assist schools with increased day-to-day running costs because I know running costs are a real issue. In addition, we have provided €45 million in cost-of-living supports for all primary, special and post-primary schools in the free scheme to help them deal with costs. We have employed more special needs assistants, special education teachers and teachers in general.
The most breathtaking thing about Deputy McDonald's presentation today is that in Northern Ireland, where Sinn Féin holds the Department of Finance, it is rolling out a similar initiative and, you know what, it is costing a hell of a lot more.
Comment on this
The Taoiseach talks in billions when it suits him but then penny-pinches on the essentials. The Government increased capitation for schools by €10 million. The capitation money is what keeps the show on the road.
A sum of €10 million is not enough and well the Taoiseach knows it. There is €10 million for that, to light and heat schools, and then €9 million and an additional €2 million year on year for phone pouches. I listen very carefully to people. I have not met one teacher who approves of that use of public money.
Comment on this
I have not met one taxpayer out on the beat who thinks that was a smart use of money.
Comment on this
As a matter of fact, people are outraged by that and all the more outraged when they discover a mere €3 million from all the Government's billions has been provided for youth mental health services at a time when we hear a lot from young people, their families and their educators about how desperately people need these services and the fact they wait and wait.
Comment on this
I asked the Taoiseach to confirm for the Dáil, and he might do so, that €9 million is actually the initial outlay on these phone pouches and the scheme will in fact cost the taxpayer €2 million annually. Will he confirm that as a matter of fact?
Comment on this
I have the documentation to hand.
Comment on this
Is it the Deputy's position that phone pouches are bad here but phone pouches are good in Northern Ireland? If it is not, will she call on the Sinn Féin Minister of Finance in Northern Ireland today to speak to her Executive colleague and stop the roll-out of the phone pouches in Northern Ireland? In Northern Ireland, Sinn Féin has already spent £250,000 on the provision of phone pouches, so phone pouches are clearly good for children-----
Comment on this
Take it up with the DUP, Taoiseach, and answer my question.
Comment on this
This is Leaders' Questions and you are being asked a question.
Comment on this
The second point is the Deputy says she has not met these people. She must not be listening to the radio because there have been schoolchildren on the radio talking about the benefit in their schools. I referenced a school principal there from De La Salle College, Churchtown. On Tuesday, 5 November an article by Ken Foxe referenced six different schools contacted about their experience of pouches and all of them described it as very positive. This idea is coming from the schools.
Comment on this
It is not mandatory; it is not obligatory. It is Government listening to teachers and principals and providing them with another option. It is €20 per kid to help support their mental health if the school wants it.
Comment on this
That is all Sinn Féin has to offer.
Comment on this
And it is €2 million per annum. Is that right, Taoiseach?
Comment on this
What about Labour's spending on the bike shed?