Phone pouches and public spending
Deputy Doherty accused the Government of wasting public money on phone pouches and other costly projects. The Tánaiste defended the initiative as a public-health measure and the exchange became increasingly disorderly, ending with the Chair moving on.
Ar an lá deireanach den Dáil seo, caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil cur amú millteanach airgead poiblí ar siúl ag an Rialtas seo. Tá a fhios againn anois nár inis an Rialtas an scéal iomlán faoin €9 milliún atá le caitheamh aige ar phúitsí d'fhóin phóca. Tá €1 milliún breise le caitheamh gach bliain. Tá ceisteanna móra le freagairt ag an Rialtas faoi seo.
The general election will be called tomorrow and the Government's waste of public money will be high on the agenda of the campaign. The Government's catalogue of waste reads like a bad comedy where the joke is always on the taxpayer, but nobody is laughing. Nobody is laughing at the €336,000 that the Government squandered on a bike shed. People did not see the funny side when the Government wasted €1.4 million of people's money on a security hut. They definitely did not burst out laughing when they heard that the cost of modular units for Ukrainians had more than doubled. People could not believe their ears, especially since so many families are struggling to get by, to pay the bills, to afford the weekly shop, to make it to the end of the week.
Then we come to the craziness of the €9 million that the Government is wasting on mobile phone pouches. People were left shaking their heads in disbelief with this one but it turns out that the Government could not even be straight with the people when it was called out on this issue. The Government was at pains to stress that this was a one-off spend. The Minister, Deputy Norma Foley, went to the media to firm up on that message. The Minister even wrote an article where the headline stated it was a "once-off investment". The Tánaiste did that too. A couple of weeks ago, when I questioned the Tánaiste here in the Dáil on Leaders' Questions on the phone pouches, he stood there and said that this was once-off expenditure but now we know that is not true. Is not that the case, Micheál?
The documents that I have received under freedom of information show that it is not true and they raise a lot of serious questions surrounding the story that the Tánaiste and his Minister, Deputy Foley, spun to the public. First, why were we not told that there would be a cost of nearly €2 million every year for these phone pouches? Why were we not told that nearly 100,000 of these pouches would have to be replaced every year? Why were we not told that the Minister, Deputy Foley, was intensely lobbied by an executive from Yondr, a company that makes these mobile phone pouches? Why were we not told that the Minister met this executive at a conference two years ago where the executive gave her a phone pouch from Yondr? This does not add up, because I recently asked Deputy Foley, on the Dáil record, if she had any meeting with a representative of a company that produces these mobile phone pouches and she answered, "No.", and it is simply not the case. The meeting happened and a phone pouch was given. That happened over two years ago. This is crazy stuff.
Not only has the Government decided to waste €9 million of the public's money on phone pouches, but its story as to why and how the decision was taken is as clear as mud, especially when there was a list provided to the Minister for Education of other common-sense solutions that would have resulted in the banning of mobile phones in the classroom but would have cost the taxpayers zero. The other options would have cost the taxpayer zero. It leaves people wondering why all of this dodginess, why all of the evasiveness? Why is the Government not telling the people the full story here?
What this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael cannot be trusted with the public's money properly. It is not only the waste on the mobile phone pouches or the waste on the bike shed or the security hut. Just look at the runaway costs in terms of the children's hospital, if one wants to make that point.
Now is the time to clear all of this up. Can the Tánaiste answer the questions that I put? Why were we not told that it would cost more - €2 million every year? Why were we not told that another nearly 100,000 mobile phone pouches would have to be bought every year because the others would have to be replaced? Why were we not told that the Minister met with an executive of Yondr and a phone pouch was given to her over two years ago? Why were we not told any of this? Why did the Government try to cover all of this up?
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I beg the Ceann Comhairle's indulgence before I reply, as we finish up the Dáil, to put on record my profound thanks to him and to the unsung army of men and women who make the Oireachtas and, through it, our democracy work - the stewards, the catering staff, the cleansing and maintenance staff, researchers, clerks, the media who are based here and the gardaí who are posted here. We are all part of a community and I am very grateful to every one of them for making it work as well as it has. This Dáil was a particularly challenging Dáil. If one remembers, at the start of this Dáil, we had the enormous disruption of Covid-19 and all of those responsibilities had to be transplanted to another venue. Indeed, I was elected as Taoiseach in that other venue. They were strange times indeed, but everybody in this entire community made it work and I am very grateful to them. I want to take this opportunity to put on the record my appreciation and thanks to the excellent public servants and private-office teams in the Department of the Taoiseach, office of the Tánaiste and Departments of Foreign Affairs and Defence for their tremendous support over the course of the past four and a half years and, indeed, wish all those elected representatives who are retiring the very best of health and happiness in the years ahead.
Ní aontaím leis an Teachta in aon chor maidir leis an méid atá ráite aige. Is léir domsa go bhfuil an-chuid déanta againn. Go háirithe, tá an-chuid foirgneamh scoile timpeall na tíre tógtha againn. Tá an-chuid ag teacht as an infheistíocht sin. Tá a lán bóithre déanta againn anois. Rinneadh infheistíocht chruinn agus mhaith i gcúrsaí sláinte agus mar sin de. I disagree fundamentally with the Deputy's assertion in respect of an issue that they are trying to engineer for the election. It is as clear as night follows day the sort of high feigned outrage about the issue in terms of smartphones in schools. The Deputy is desperately grasping at the straws to grab an issue that he thinks might rescue or help him in the election campaign.
The Deputy failed to mention the fantastic school projects that have been completed on budget and on time, from Scoil Mhuire gan Smál in Blarney to the Limerick Educate Together school in Castletroy in Limerick, and the extension of St. Conleth's primary and St. Mary's infants' school in Newbridge, all significant investments and huge value for money; the primary care centres across the country - we now have 174 of them; and the big road projects in terms of Castlebaldwin on the N4, the N59 Moycullen bypass, the Dunkettle interchange and the Listowel bypass to mention just a few of the public investments that have come in on budget and on time, have been good value for money and have helped the situation for many people. If one looks at the Macroom bypass, for example, right through to Baile Bhuirne, it is extraordinary value for money and has huge impacts for the public as well.
In terms of the bike shed, as indeed the Chairman of the OPW said, it was excessive. I did not ask for that bike shelter. Members of the Opposition did. They wrote in. In fairness, I do not think they expected the level of expenditure that subsequently ensued but the OPW was asked to provide a bike shelter by Members of this House - the majority in the Opposition. That is what happened. It was excessive-----
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-----and not sustainable. It is something that should have been provided for far less than it subsequently was provided for but it was sought by Members of the House.
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Deputy Bacik wanted a second one.
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Deputy Bacik wanted a second one.
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I am not taking that any more from that corner of the House.
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It is a fact. Deputy Bacik wrote to them.
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Many Members, from Government and Opposition, looked for decent bike parking.
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Yes. Anyway, I said what I said in respect of that.
In terms of the security hut, that came from a recommendation from a group. I think it was excessive, but often when the Garda recommends certain security measures in Government Buildings, people fulfil what is ordained in respect of security in that regard.
On the phone pouches, I want to make this point.
I have been a long-term advocate for public health in this Dáil. I introduced the smoking ban against many vested interests. Deputy Mattie McGrath might not have been a fan at the time-----
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-----but I did it in the interest of the public well-being and the health of our people. We have done other public health measures like the ban on smoky fuels that Mary Harney brought in, which had a huge impact on public health. I met Dr. Fauci recently, and he and I have described social media as the public health threat of our time in respect of our children. The impact on children is horrific. Deputy Doherty has been extremely disingenuous in his presentation of the arguments and in his dismissal of that public health dimension to what is a good initiative. One of the initiatives I took in education - I was interrupted a bit, a Cheann Comhairle, if I could just be given 30 seconds-----
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I brought in a measure years ago in terms of students being allowed to view their exam papers in schools. That cost money at the time because we had to fund it. What he did not mention in the FOI material is how the schools that were consulted said it was a transformative initiative in terms of the utilisation of phone pouches and preventing the use of smartphones during the school day. I will say this to the Deputy. Long after this election, in time to come----
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Tánaiste, your time is up and more so than just on this clock. The Tánaiste's Minister----
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The Tánaiste's Minister oversees the OPW that spent €336,000 on the bike shed, €1.4 million on a security hut, and the Tánaiste cannot stand there and do a Pontius Pilate and wash his hands of it. His Ministers are all over this, the waste of public money, not just on this but the national children's hospital as well, a runaway train. The Minister for Health oversees that project. He is a Fianna Fáil Minister. I asked the Tánaiste specific questions. He did not tell the truth. The Government kept the information from the public. I asked why we were not told that there would be an additional €2 million cost on the phone pouches every year. Why did he stand there a number of weeks ago and say this was a one-off cost? Answer that question.
The Tánaiste should tell me why he never told us that there would have to be up to 100,000 of these phone pouches replaced and bought every year? The Tánaiste should tell me why he did not tell the public that the Minister, Deputy Foley, was lobbied by an executive from Yondr, the company that makes these phone pouches. Please explain to me why the Minister, Deputy Foley, in a reply to a parliamentary question on the record of this Dáil, when I asked if she had any meeting with an executive from any of the phone companies, said "No". It is clear, however, from the correspondence from the executive in Yondr, which starts. "Dear Norma" and hopes she is well. It reminds the Minister that she met the executive at the NAPD conference last October, which was in 2022, where the executive gave her a Yondr pouch for her to see it herself. There was extensive lobbying after that. Why is the Tánaiste not coming clean with the public? He tries to dismiss this as a non-issue. It is a serious issue of waste of public money, of a vanity project by a Fianna Fáil Minister who was extensively lobbied by an executive, who was given a pouch, and who misled this Dáil throughout the process.
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Deputy, could you explain to me why your party introduced it in Northern Ireland with the Northern Ireland Executive?
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You cannot answer the questions, Tánaiste.
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-----and the Executive in Northern Ireland financed it and who is the Finance Minister? Sinn Féin holds the Finance Ministry.
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I do not like the way you are trying to insinuate certain characteristics attributed to the Minister, which is unworthy of the Deputy.
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She was given a phone pouch two years ago and she put it on the record of the Dáil. What are you hiding?
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The record of the Dáil was misled.
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During my Ard-Fheis speech during the year, I described social media as the greatest public health----
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Answer the question as to why she misled the Dáil.
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A Cheann Comhairle, why is the Opposition microphone on?
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Please, on the last day of the sitting of this Dáil, do not make me suspend it because of this carry-on. That goes for the Government side as well. Let us have quiet.
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That is fair enough but, a Cheann Comhairle, can I ask, on a point of order-----
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The misleading of the Dáil is an important point and if we have evidence that this Dáil was misled, that she met with Yondr, that she was given a pouch two years ago----
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At our Ard-Fheis last year I described social media, the use of smartphones and so on as the public health threat of our generation. I have been consistent on this. I believe in taking the smartphone out of the school day. I believe in allowing children the opportunity to concentrate and to enjoy.
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In the material that was released, teachers spoke about the use of these pouches-----
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The material shows that you misled the Dáil as well.
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-----as freeing up the time for children to do what children normally and naturally did before the invasion of social media.
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Why did you not tell the truth? It is €2 million every year.
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I want to finish by saying that long after this general election is over, I will make this prediction: In years to come, people will look back on this initiative and say it was a good initiative that did some good for the children of that generation. That is what will happen, by the way. This will be implemented.
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Why did you not tell the truth? You are not answering any of the questions.
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Why did he not tell us it will cost €2 million every year afterwards, that the pouches will have to be replaced and that the Minister, Deputy Foley. met the company and was given a pouch? What are you hiding?
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We are certainly not doing anything for our standing in the public eye with this sort of carry-on. Please can we maintain some sort of decorum? I know you are all worked up and excited about undertaking the campaign but save it for the doorsteps and let us behave ourselves here, please.
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With respect, I have got a point of order.
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There is no point of order when I raise it, a Cheann Comhairle, is that the point?