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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Palestine and Lowry speaking rights

Summary

Deputy Coppinger says the real issue is the Government’s decision to foist the Lowry arrangement without debate and cut Opposition scrutiny, especially on Palestine and other major issues. The Taoiseach defends the Gaza record, repeats that the agreement is modest and justified, and says the Opposition is using protest tactics to veto the House.

Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I now move to Deputy Ruth Coppinger.

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Today in my Leaders’ Questions, I wanted to raise the absolutely desperate situation in Palestine, the Government’s failure to even meet the UN special rapporteur in Leinster House last week and issues such as the special needs crisis, the health workers and so many other issues but today we have to come back to this again because of what happened yesterday.

Comments have been made about the unpleasantness of the protest yesterday. I even heard some claims of misogyny which I found extremely cynical from one of the most male-dominated governments on the planet.

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It strikes me that the Ceann Comhairle is a woman who knows her own mind and took a decision yesterday, unfortunately, to co-operate with what was a very co-ordinated move not to allow Order of Business properly, to jettison Questions on Promised Legislation and so on. However, I want to move the focus back on the Taoiseach because he knew that these proposals were opposed by the Opposition and he took a decision to foist them without debate yesterday. What did he think was going to happen? Does he think any of this would have happened if there had been a debate yesterday?

Do not forget that in January Deputy Martin was very anxious to get himself elected as Taoiseach and his party stood over there and made a promise to the Dáil that there would be consensus. Nothing would happen without consensus. He broke that promise like we have seen him break promises about the housing figures, on disability funding, free HRT and all the things that were promised before the election.

It is important to bring home for the general public what this is actually about. This is the Government removing itself more and more from being challenged in a real way. Journalists are saying the bombs in Gaza are more important than what has happened. Who do you think is going to question the Taoiseach more about the bombs in Gaza?

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Is it the Lowry lackies, the Government, or people who actually care about the Palestine solidarity movement? That is who. Who is more likely to really interrogate the Government on a whole range of issues?

This is the Government preparing itself for unpopular decisions that it will have to take on water charges, cost of living, the triple lock, militarisation but today and next Wednesday, instead of Taoiseach’s questions, we will have Michael Lowry questioning the Taoiseach. Michael Lowry, I want to remind the Taoiseach, is the character he is doing all this for, who was found to be profoundly corrupt by a tribunal in a breathtaking fashion. Does the Taoiseach have any qualms whatever doing business with Michael Lowry? This is someone who gave two fingers to the public yesterday and then went and gaslit the population that he did not actually done it. Someone who can lie at the drop of a hat like that – has the Taoiseach any qualms at all about doing business with him?

This Government is becoming very good at gaslighting. It is reciting a mantra of “eight minutes”. Why would the Taoiseach die on a ditch over eight minutes?

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He is saying we are making a mountain out of a molehill. This is about him cutting the Opposition’s rights and entitlements to interrogate him.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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First, I stand over the Government’s record on Gaza. I do not accept the Deputy’s criticism on that.

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That is why you do not want to be questioned by the Opposition.

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We have been very clear in our condemnation of Israeli violence in Gaza-----

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No, you have not.

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What about the Occupied Territories Bill?

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-----and equally of our condemnation of Hamas's atrocity on 7 October, something which the Deputy and her colleagues have never condemned which I think is a shame and a stain on you that you have never condemned what was an appalling slaughter of the innocents. It is noticeable that you have always refused to do that.

Look at this morning. We have had Leaders’ Questions from whom? From Deputies McDonald, Bacik, Deputy Coppinger herself, Deputy O’Callaghan and others.

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Yes. The Opposition.

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The Opposition. That is what Leaders' Questions is supposed to be.

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You could have had Michael Lowry in there as well. Would he like the Tánaiste to ask a question?

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The public will see all of this over the coming weeks. This is feigned outrage. It is very modest, the Deputy is correct. The Deputy asked a question. I am not dying in any ditch. I think it is a reasonable, balanced solution which took about 20 hours.

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I am not sure about that.

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By the way, the commitment of the former Chief Whip was to engage fully with the Dáil reform committee and to work to secure an agreement as soon as possible that was acceptable to the Government and Opposition. Not just Opposition but to the Government as well-----

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And Opposition.

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-----as regards formation of technical groups and the rights of unaligned Members.

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You got it right for one party but not the other.

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You got 50% there.

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I have said the precedents that have been set by the Opposition of this Dáil will be very hard to overturn in future Dáileanna.

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I think this situation is a new departure. I will say why because the Deputies are going through the various procedures which a Ceann Comhairle was meant to do. The Ceann Comhairle, in my view, repeatedly asked Sinn Féin to table its amendment and it refused to do so.

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I was there; I witnessed it. Four times. The point I am making is this. If it is the tactic-----

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Go away with you.

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That is not true.

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A Deputy

Bullshit.

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I was here yesterday and I endeavoured to respond to Deputy McDonald and, in an organised manner, the Sinn Féin Deputies in particular conspired to make sure that my voice could not be heard. The same thing happened to the Ceann Comhairle by any objective observation.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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The Ceann Comhairle stood up on a number of occasions. All of you were barracking, shouting, intimidatory behaviour, aggression. Deputy Doherty - there was naked aggression from you in your approach and posture.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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That is out of order.

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Shame on you.

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That is what I witnessed yesterday. It is form for you, too, by the way.

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That is out of order.

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Play the man, Micheál. Play the man. What you did was a disgrace and you know it.

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Yes. An absolute disgrace.

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That is very regrettable-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputies, please.

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-----in my view and it is a precedent that has been set. It cannot be opposition by veto. This House cannot be run on the basis that if the Ceann Comhairle of the day, whatever Ceann Comhairle -----

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You cannot be in Government and Opposition.

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Is there any chance of answering the question about Michael Lowry?

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-----does not agree with the Opposition's perspective or approach then the Ceann Comhairle loses the confidence of the Opposition.

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That is not correct. That is nonsense.

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That is utter nonsense.

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That is nonsense.

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This is not a normal Dáil. That is the precedent that is being set. I saw yesterday Sinn Féin in particular endeavouring to prevent procedures from being implemented, processed and properly followed through.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Taoiseach. Deputy Coppinger to respond.

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It is a grubby deal.

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What about our amendment?

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Once again, the Taoiseach deflects completely -----

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-----and does not answer the question about Michael Lowry and doing business with him. Michael Lowry who, as I said, was found by a tribunal to have received payments in the order of at least £180,000 from somebody he gave a mobile phone licence to and who is now a multi billionaire. You do not get more corrupt than that and the Taoiseach has no qualms.

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Taoiseach's questions is being halved.

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Hundreds of Taoiseach's questions will not be asked. For example, personally, in that slot, I have raised repeal when nobody else in this Dáil was interested. I raised trans healthcare and many other topics that there is no way any of the Taoiseach's backbenchers will ask him about. We heard a lot about the terrible plight of the lonely backbencher. My heart was bleeding until I remembered that these backbenchers have direct access and an inside track to Ministers. They frequently organise meetings in constituencies with Ministers to which they do not invite Opposition TDs.

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Some of us might like to raise matters in the Chamber.

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They are representing their constituents.

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There is this idea that they are in this terrible position. They can speak at any time should they choose to.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Deputy's time is up.

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I want to finish by saying this is in line with anti-democratic measures that parliaments are taking across Europe. They are using their majorities to cut across the right to protest and democratic rights. They are doing it in the UK today cutting welfare rights-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you. Time is up Deputy. Taoiseach to respond.

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