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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Workers' rights and pay

Summary

Deputy Bacik and later Deputy Murphy raise May Day, inflation, workers’ rights, the living wage, sick pay and youth pay discrimination. The Tánaiste points to minimum wage increases, statutory sick pay, auto-enrolment and wider Government support for workers, while defending the existing tiered minimum wage system.

I wish everyone today a happy May Day. Many workers across the State are looking forward to a day off on Monday; a public holiday introduced by the Labour Party to mark International Workers' Day. It is important we mark this day. Its purpose is more than just celebrating the progress made on workers' rights in the past 100 years because May Day is also when we shine a light on the continued exploitation, poverty and inequality experienced by far too many people still.

Today, we think of all those working families struggling to pay their bills. We heard only yesterday a spike in food prices last month has pushed our annual inflation rate to 2% and, more and more, people are struggling to makes ends meet in a cost-of-living crisis. This is partly why there has been such uproar about the outrageous almost half a million euro salary proposed for Fianna Fáil's housing maverick; a housing oligarch or a housing tsar with a Russian oligarch price tag. We might call it a "fixer-in-chief" or even "a fixer with a nixer" and what an extraordinary nixer this is. It is interesting to hear the Tánaiste and Fine Gael colleagues distancing themselves from this. Indeed, people will be glad to hear he has just said no decision has been made yet on how to populate this new office. When households are stretched, people need reassurance from Government. On the issue of reassurance, the Tánaiste needs to give workers a reprieve on low pay. Those who are on low pay need to have hope for the future.

This year marks 25 years since the introduction of the minimum wage. It is ten years since Labour, and my colleague, Deputy Nash, established the Low Pay Commission with the support of the Tánaiste's party, Fine Gael, and the commission has done a good job. Thanks to its evidence-based approach, we have seen nine successive increases in the minimum wage so that each year, those on the lowest salaries have been given more money in their pockets to pay for basic necessities and to put aside for the future. Our common goal should be to ensure workers in this country are not just living to work because they must spend every waking hour toiling to cover the cost, but that they are able to work to live.

Those minimum wage increases would not have happened without the Low Pay Commission. They would not have happened were the Tánaiste's party left to its own devices and I say that not to cause offence. In fact, Fine Gael's recent record in workers' rights is stronger than his partners in Fianna Fáil. At the first sniff of a previous economic downturn, Fianna Fáil leapt to cut the minimum wage, shamefully, by €1.

The Government must do more now. Lowest paid workers in Ireland were promised a living wage by 2026, calculated at €14.75 per hour, a floor which no one should fall beneath. Disappointingly, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Burke, has moved the goalposts, shifting that deadline again, this time to 2029. He cited the need to take account of competitiveness issues but that is a red herring. The Low Pay Commission is already required by law to take competitiveness into account under section 6 of the Act. Instead of trying to pin competitiveness issues on the lowest paid workers in the State, will the Tánaiste commit to honouring the Low Pay Commission's approach-----

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John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Thank you, Deputy.

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-----and stick with that 2026 deadline? Can he give workers a hope on May Day, a hope for the future, to move them out of the poverty trap?

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Hear, hear.

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Bacik for that. I also wish everyone a happy International Workers' Day. I would like to acknowledge the incredible work done by workers right across our country in the public service and in the private sector, as well as the many people who work here in Leinster House to help our democracy function on a daily basis. Objectively, it is fair to say a lot of positive measures have been taken, as the Deputy referenced, in recent years to support workers.

The minimum wage in Ireland has been increased by more than 33% in the past five years and if I am correct, we now have the second highest minimum wage in Europe. We have introduced statutory sick pay when, two years ago, we lived in a country where there was no statutory sick pay scheme. We have pay-related benefits, which is a really important reform, that took effect at the end of March and this, again, provides a greater safety net to workers if they lose their jobs. I am pleased that auto-enrolment will be introduced from 1 January 2026. I acknowledge the proposals my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Calleary, brought forward on that to Cabinet this week. This will ensure that workers right across our country will have greater financial security and comfort in their retirement. It addresses a real divide that has existed in respect of pensions for a very long time.

We have also had other important changes, including a new public holiday on St. Brigid's Day, introduced in 2023, and legislation to ensure employers must distribute tips fairly among their employees. Changes such as remote working have also had a positive impact on many workers, though I acknowledge we continue to work through all the change that brings about together. It has largely been very positive for many workers and certainly for many people I meet when I go about my business.

We have made progress on issues such as parental and paternity leave. We published - through the Minister, Deputy Burke's work for consultation - an action plan on collective bargaining, which has been one of the key asks of the union movement in its engagement with Government in recent times. More broadly, I am pleased we now have the Labour Employer Engagement Forum, LEEF, which works very well. It is chaired by the Taoiseach and is attended by myself, the Ministers for Finance, Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Social Protection and other relevant Ministers, to tease through in a collaborative way a range of issues that relate to our economy, enterprise and the like. That is a structure that works well too.

Of course, Government must always balance all these issues by making sure we hear the concerns of our small businesses, medium-sized businesses and indigenous-owned businesses across the country. I take the point they should never be pitted against each other. Employers know that looking after their employees well is in their interest for a variety of reasons. The Government will see further minimum wage increases and recognise the ongoing work of the Low Pay Commission. I acknowledge the work done by Deputy Nash on that. We want to see a living wage introduced by 2029.

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I have certainly acknowledged positive advances made for workers' rights, fought for and campaigned for by trade unions and the trade union movement. At a time when we are seeing significant divisions emerging between the Tánaiste and his senior coalition partner in Fianna Fáil, perhaps this is the time for him to carve out a space on workers' rights that emphasises the difference between Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, not just on "fixers with nixers" but on issues that actually matter to working people. The Tánaiste's predecessor, Leo Varadkar, spoke very positively about workers' rights. The Tánaiste has spoken very positively about workers' rights. This is a difference he could make in government and that is why it is so disappointing that one of his Ministers is talking about delaying that necessary move to a living wage to 2029 and citing competitiveness as a reason for doing so. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Burke, knows the issues really affecting competitiveness in this country: lack of infrastructure, chronic housing shortage, and spiralling energy bills. That is what is driving competitiveness issues for small businesses and our economy, not low paid workers. They should not be bearing the brunt of a cost-of-living crisis.

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Hear, hear.

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I assure Deputy Bacik the Government is unified in wanting to support our workers and economy and wanting to protect their jobs too. I agree low paid workers and workers in this country are certainly not responsible for the many turbulent challenges the global economy faces and the impact that may have on Ireland.

We are very lucky to live in a country where our union movement was very constructive in its engagement, even during the darkest days of the financial crisis. I acknowledge that on International Workers' Day. It does not mean we always agree with them or they agree with us - I do not want to kill their street credit - but it is important we have that constructive engagement and I acknowledge that. On the living wage, this was about trying to calibrate it correctly. It has been - not by the Deputy - sometimes misrepresented or discussed in recent days as though the minimum wage will not continue to rise or that the journey towards the living wage will not continue; it will. We will continue to see the minimum wage increases. At present, we have wage growth in Ireland of approximately 3.5% to 4% and inflation at approximately 1.7%. We are back seeing real wage growths and people's incomes going back up. We are now also trying to help in other ways. Hot school meals and free school books are of course benefiting everybody but also our low paid workers. We will continue our positive agenda in this regard.

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One of the first protests I went on was to demand the introduction of a minimum wage.

At that stage there was no minimum wage. Bosses could pay what they liked. That campaign was won and 25 years ago a national minimum wage was introduced. Scandalously, the minimum wage included provision for legal discrimination against young workers. That inequality continues to this day. Around 15,000 young people in this country are legally paid less than the minimum wage. We have a national minimum wage of €13.50 an hour which is less than the living wage, a wage which makes possible a minimum livable standard of living. The road to that living wage is getting longer under this Government. However, bosses are allowed to pay 19-year-olds 10% less than that inadequate wage, 18-year-olds can get 20% less and 17-year-olds and younger can be paid 30% below the minimum wage, an insulting €9.45 an hour. When they go to pay for groceries, they do not get 30% off the bill. If a 19-year-old is renting, he or she cannot take 10% off the rent or get a young person's discount on petrol. It is blatant discrimination for young workers doing the same work as their colleagues.

In the Oireachtas committee, the employers' group, Irish SME Association, ISME, claimed that it is in loco parentis over young workers who, I quote, "may favour gratification before learning how to budget", that bosses are doing young workers a favour by underpaying them otherwise, they might waste the money on sweets. ISME also revealed the real reason it wants to keep subminimum wages. It said if young workers get the full minimum wage, this will have a spill-over impact on other workers' pay demands. In other words, it is about wage suppression for all workers.

Two years ago we in People Before Profit proposed a Bill to do away with this legalised super-exploitation. It passed Second Stage but with a timed amendment from the Government to delay it by a year. The excuse for the delay was that the Low Pay Commission was due to report on these subminimum wage rates. The Low Pay Commission did report, last March. It recommended that subminimum wages should be abolished. Were they then abolished? No, the can was kicked down the road again with an economic impact assessment. I asked the Minister for an update on the progress of this assessment. The reply to the parliamentary question I got on Tuesday said it will not be finished until June but that regardless of that, "the Government has agreed to defer any decision on sub-minimum youth rates of the National Minimum Wage." That is to say, the Government is going to continue with legalised super-exploitation of young people, even after the Dáil voted to end it and the Low Pay Commission recommended that it be done away with, and before the economic impact assessment commissioned by the Government has even been completed. On May Day, on International Workers' Day, will the Tánaiste please reverse course on this anti-worker agenda? Will he commit to equal pay for young workers?

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Murphy. I do not believe anybody can credibly suggest that this Government is anti-worker. In fact, there are many more workers in this country as a result of this Government's and successive governments' efforts to create jobs in every town, village and city throughout our island. To have workers, you need to have jobs. There are many more people in employment. Many of us remember days in this House where the biggest challenge being raised on Leaders' Questions and at every other opportunity was that people could not get a job in Ireland. There were very high unemployment rates. We have worked extremely hard to get to a much better place, to get to a place of effective full employment. That is something we should never take for granted. We cannot be complacent about that. We have to work day in, day out to make sure that businesses remain viable. I do not know whether the Deputy was directly quoting people but language about sweeties and all that sort of stuff is just utterly offensive to young people who work bloody hard and play a very good role in so many parts of our economy.

I also know that many of the businesses they disproportionately work in, often part time, often during college and the likes, are businesses that are to the pin of their collar in trying to keep the doors open. I challenge the Deputy to call into a café, hotel or restaurant in his constituency, as I am sure he does. I am sure he will hear from them the challenges they face in meeting the pay bill. I am sure he will see in cafés throughout the country, as I do sometimes, reduced opening hours. When you talk to an employer one of the reasons they will cite is the fact of trying to keep down the cost.

One of the things that the Government is collectively doing across parties and across the Independents, with the Minister, Deputy Burke, is looking at the whole issue of how we can help businesses with the cost of doing business. That is against a backdrop not of wage suppression, which the Deputy referenced but is simply not the case, but of a minimum wage that is increasing year on year and that will increase again no doubt in the year ahead and years ahead, and that has increased by 33% over the past five years. It is now the second-highest minimum wage rate in Europe. I accept this was not always the case in recent years with very high inflation but we are back now, thankfully, in a position where wage growth is exceeding inflation and exceeding it effectively. In other words, the extra money people are getting in wages is now outstripping any increases in the cost of living.

It is wrong to say the Dáil voted for this. The Dáil allowed a timed amendment for a Bill to progress on Second Stage. To people who follow these matters, that is not the same as saying the Dáil passed a law in relation to this. There is no suppression of a decision in relation to that. The Minister has outlined the process he is taking. However, he has also outlined very honestly, as he should, that he is trying to get a balance right to make sure that young people throughout Ireland have access to employment, and that the companies and businesses they are working in can keep their own doors open. Of course, we will continue to keep these issues under review. There are many ways we are helping young people with their own cost of living, with their educational opportunities, with the reduction in college fees and the like. We want to continue on that positive trajectory.

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I do not think it is credible to suggest that this Government is anything other than anti-worker. Look at its actions in just the past few weeks - the delay of a promised extension of sick leave. I remember debating the sick leave legislation here. I remember us saying the extension of time should be in the legislation and the Government saying, “We do not need to write it in, but do not worry, we will extend it.” The Government is delaying the introduction of a promised living wage and now is standing over a situation of legalised super-exploitation of young people. The Tánaiste is saying it is okay for workers under the age of 20 who are doing the same work as colleagues beside them to be paid less than the minimum wage. I have no problem going into cafés, restaurants or shops in my constituency and saying, “It is not okay to pay people less than the minimum wage.” Surely the Government should be in a position to do that. How long is this delay going to be? The justification that is being given for continuing with this super-exploitation of young people is not legitimate. The Low Pay Commission looked at it and said it would not stand up, it does not amount to a legitimate aim and would therefore not be legal under the EU directive on adequate minimum wages that if you have exceptions, they need to be in pursuit of a legitimate aim and that pursuance of cost savings for employers does not count as that. That is clearly the agenda the Tánaiste is setting out.

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

It is not that anybody is breaching the minimum wage; it is that we have a tiered system of minimum wage in this country. The Deputy and I have different views on that but people are following the minimum wage. It is just tiered and applies differently to different people in different age brackets. That is the system that we have had in place. After the Deputy goes into that café and outlines his view to the café owner and goes back to his job as a TD, the café owner is left having to pay the bill and having to think about how they are going to keep the doors open and continue.

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The young person has to pay the bill as well. What about them?

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

We support young people in so many ways. I found myself having to shout at the radio the other day about broken promises in relation to statutory sick pay. Read the Fine Gael manifesto. We were very clear during the general election in relation to five days of statutory sick pay. It is there; it is in black and white. We made it clear to people. There was no statutory sick pay scheme two years ago. There is now. There will be auto-enrolment in terms of pension provision from next January, thanks to the work of this Government. We are moving towards a living wage. We have the second-highest minimum wage in Europe. It has risen by more than 33% over the past five years. We are reducing childcare costs. We have taken measures in relation to hot school meals, school books, reducing college fees and, crucially, we have done something really important, that is, we have created jobs, providing people with employment across the length and breadth of this country. That should never be taken for granted.

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John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Before we move to Deputy O'Donoghue, I want to acknowledge the family members of Deputy Brian Brennan from the Wicklow-Wexford constituency, who are here in the Public Gallery on this special day for his mother, Ann, who is 91-years-of-age. They are all very welcome. I hope they enjoy their day.

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