Now we take Leaders' Questions under Standing Order 38.

First, a warm word of welcome to the students from Inver College, Carrickmacross, County Monaghan. It is the alma mater of Deputy Matt Carthy, so they have a lot to answer for.

The Government is all over the place as to what will happen with the €430,000 salary of NAMA CEO Brendan McDonagh when the agency is wound up at the end of this year. One arm of the Government does not know what the other is doing, and there has been contradiction after contradiction. When the Government’s plan was to appoint Mr. McDonagh as its new housing tsar, the Taoiseach told the Dáil repeatedly that he would retain his €430,000 salary in the role. The Taoiseach was adamant that this would be the case and that it would not cost the taxpayer any additional money because Mr. McDonagh would be seconded and the salary was already being paid from the public purse. However, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, then directly contradicted the Taoiseach. He told us Mr. McDonagh would not retain the eye-watering salary on returning to his role within the NTMA. He said that only a specific number of NAMA executives will retain their terms when the transfer of personnel takes place. Then we had the Minister for public expenditure, Deputy Jack Chambers, in the middle of this fiasco. This is where it gets very Fianna Fáily. As Minister for Finance, he drafted the legislation making it clear that all NAMA executives would go to the resolution unit in the National Treasury Management Agency and that all of them would therefore retain their pay and conditions. This must include Mr. McDonagh and his €430,000 pay packet. The Minister will recall that the officials who appeared before the Oireachtas finance committee in September were very clear that Mr. McDonagh would be retaining his salary. Therefore, the labyrinth of contradiction prompts people to ask what the hell is going on here. People catch the stink of something rotten.

Of course, there has not been a peep from the Government on the fact that Mr. McDonagh, its once-preferred candidate for housing tsar, is renting out a house in Dublin for €10,000 a week in the middle of a housing crisis.

The Government is desperately trying to save face and scrambling for cover because at the heart of this controversy is the instinct of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to keep political insiders onside, to preserve the way things work and to feather the nests of the golden circle. The Government’s big problem is that nobody trusts Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to tell the truth. It was caught fibbing about housing delivery figures during the election. The Minister was in the middle of that. It was caught out with the false election promise to provide an extra €1 billion on water infrastructure and it has spent the past few months moving heaven and earth to protect its grubby deal with Deputy Michael Lowry. When it does business by misleading it cannot really blame people for not believing a single word that comes from the Government’s mouth.

Tá an Rialtas seo trína chéile maidir leis an tuarastal €430,000 do cheannasaí NAMA. Tagann gach ráiteas nua salach ar an ráiteas roimhe, agus tá an Rialtas ag iarraidh dul i bhfolach.

The Minister drafted the legislation that will allow Mr. McDonagh to keep his jaw-dropping salary. He has it down, in fact, as priority legislation. I will ask straight questions and hopefully the Minister will give straight answers. Who is telling the truth about Mr. McDonagh’s €430,000 salary? Is it the Taoiseach or is it the Minister for Finance? Can we have some honesty from the Government?

I also welcome all the students from Inver College. Hopefully they will be inspired by politics and what they see today. Robust exchanges are always important in the political system.

I appreciate what the Deputy has raised. I will provide clarity for her. The legislation she referenced was the general scheme of the conclusion of the IBRC special liquidation and dissolution of NAMA Bill 2024, which was published in July last year. The Deputy referenced pre-legislative scrutiny that was ongoing at the joint committee between its members and officials from the Department of Finance. It contained standard statutory provisions modelled on other similar legislation to ensure that when operations of one state entity are transferred to another, the employment rights of staff are preserved. This was included in the general scheme in case it was required, which is specified in this to apply to the transfer of a small number of staff from NAMA to a resolution unit in the NTMA to be established to manage any residual activity following the dissolution of NAMA. No decision has been made, as the Minister for Finance said yesterday, about who these individuals might be and discussions are ongoing with the NTMA. It is clear that the resolution unit will be much smaller in scale than NAMA was and, as such, it is not expected that the unit will require the transfer of the CEO role as it is currently constituted. Where staff who are not going to be in the resolution unit and who are not already made redundant by NAMA prior to the dissolution date are concerned, it is a matter for the NTMA as their particular employer. The general scheme sets out clearly that this provision is not complete, that discussions are "ongoing with the NTMA and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this Bill to facilitate staff transfers". The Government has not yet published the final legislation on this matter.

On the Deputy’s question on the housing activation office, it will be a really important office when it comes to addressing the barriers and constraints that exist at local level, for example. Yes, the nominated individual to whom she referred is not proceeding with that role. As such, the Minister for housing, Deputy Browne will come back to the Government about who it might be and what the appropriate expertise will involve in the context of the establishment of that office. It will be an important office to address some of the constraints and barriers at local level. We should all take that cross-party approach to addressing the constraints that impede the supply of housing at a local level. This is a proactive response from the Minister for housing to address the barriers and difficulties in some local authorities to try to synchronise and co-ordinate the delivery of local infrastructure. The strategic housing office will work and co-ordinate with the infrastructure division that I have established in my own Department so that we really accelerate and step up the ability to deliver infrastructure and housing supply across our economy.

The purpose of having an individual leading that is that we have someone with the appropriate level of expertise and leadership to really drive change and accelerate delivery in this area. The appointment of a head of office with an in-depth understanding will be critical to having the impact the office needs to have. In the interim, staff will be deployed from the Department of housing to step up the office. It will also involve seconding individuals from across the commercial State sector to accelerate delivery in the provision of infrastructure.

I have clarified the matter relating to the legislation. It was a general scheme. The legislation has yet to be published on that matter, and it may not require that provision as the NTMA works through the relative conditions with respect to people that exist in NAMA. We are stepping up the housing activation office and it will make a difference in the provision of housing supply, and we should all support that.

In the spirit of being helpful to the Minister, what needs to step up is the performance of the Minister for housing and indeed the collective performance of Government. All of that is just verbiage that the Minister has offered up on that unit. The Minister for housing drives housing delivery. That is their job description, that is why they are on a big salary. The legislation is very clear that all NAMA employees and executives transferring back to the NTMA will work in the resolution unit. Therefore, all of them will hold their terms and conditions. That is what it states. Either the Government is going to remove that provision from the legislation, and please tell me if that is the case, or we can only presume that Mr. McDonagh will return to the NTMA and hold his salary of €430,000. The Minister has been caught out here and he is continuing to duck and dive today. I want clarity from him. He will return to the NTMA. What salary will he be on? Will it, in fact, remain at €430,000? It is an obscene salary in anybody's mind.

I completely reject what the Deputy said. She asked me a question relating to the legislation and I gave her an answer that reflects the factual position in a general scheme that was presented. The draft general scheme states very clearly that discussions are ongoing with the NTMA and it may be the case that no provision is needed in this Bill to facilitate staff transfers. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, yesterday set out very clearly that the resolution unit would not require a CEO. It is going to be a much smaller unit, managing the remaining assets that exist within the NTMA and in that particular unit. That is why the NTMA, as an employer, for staff who are not already made redundant after the dissolution, will engage with the respective staff relating to their future contractual position within the agency. That is a contractual matter, as the Deputy will respect, between the employer and the respective employee. I do not think it appropriate that the Deputy is raising a particular contractual matter of a particular employee----

I do not think it is appropriate that this guy is being paid €430,000.

----in the context of an ongoing engagement in respect of an employee in the NTMA. That particular provision may not be required as they conclude resolution of NAMA.

So maybe or maybe not.

The public pays their salary.