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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Gender-based violence response

Summary

Deputy Coppinger raised violence against women and LGBT people, welcomed survivors in the Gallery, and urged stronger Government action and attendance at marches. The Tánaiste acknowledged the epidemic of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, outlined existing measures including Cuan and new legislation, and agreed counselling notes should not be used in criminal trials.

Survivors of gender-based violence have just held a press event calling for Government action and for people to attend global marches taking place on Tuesday, the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. I welcome Natasha O'Brien and Becca Clarke to the Gallery. They are among the survivors who just spoke. I also send solidarity to the loved ones of Stella Gallagher, who was killed in Cork this week.

Violence against women and LGBT people is a global epidemic. The UN recognises it as such. Even ten minutes, a woman or girl is killed by a family member. The femicide report in the UK says that more women are killed by their sons than by strangers. There are no riots or calls for debates in here when we hear statistics like that but it is the actual reality. Across the globe, women and people of all genders will march. There is going to be a shutdown in South Africa. In Ireland, ROSA is calling for protests at City Hall in Dublin at 5.30 p.m. next Tuesday and in Limerick and Cork, also on Tuesday.

The UN is highlighting online violence and online misogyny this year. There is no doubt that spreading misogyny is the bedrock of violence against women. This week, the US President said to a reporter "Quiet, piggy." The New York Post is asking whether women ruined the workplace. We are seeing a huge backlash against women's rights. Companies that are based here and enjoy huge tax breaks are participating in the grooming of young boys and the spreading of the manosphere and of misogynistic ideas such that traditional attitudes, as they are called, are re-emerging.

What is in the Tánaiste's control is the justice system. I will quickly raise two issues. The first is the fact that, over the last decade, the DPP has opted not to prosecute 13,000 cases of sexual violence. People like Nikita Hand and Becca Clarke, who is here today, had their cases turned down even though they were among the 5% of people who actually try to prosecute a case. The other issue I will raise with the Tánaiste is that of the Bill regarding counselling notes that is being drafted by the Minister for justice. This is something I have raised with the Tánaiste before. The fact that their therapy notes can be used by the defence has been identified as a misogynistic and traumatising issue for many survivors. The justice committee, the National Women's Council, the Rape Crisis Centre, all of the professional therapists and psychologists and all survivors want a complete ban on this. The Tánaiste needs to tell his Minister to go back to the drawing board and to find a way to make it impermissible to introduce counselling notes as evidence. They are third-party notes. In fact, they are hearsay. They are not evidence fit for a trial. We need a complete ban on this now. There must be no more messing around and no more retraumatising people who actually have the gumption and stamina to take a court case in this country, which is very rare.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

I thank Deputy Coppinger for raising this really important issue. I also thank those in the Gallery for being here today. Domestic, sexual and gender-based violence is a global epidemic and it is an epidemic in Ireland. We should call it out for that. We should acknowledge the advocacy and bravery of those who come forward and seek to bring about much-needed change in this area. It should not be seen as an issue to be addressed by women alone. It involves leadership from all of us in all political parties right across this Dáil, across these Houses and across society.

I do not mean to be argumentative but the Deputy said there are no debates in this House. I beg to differ. Perhaps there is an argument that we could have more debates in the House, and we should, but I certainly welcome the fact that there is now much more discussion on legislation, in Oireachtas committees and in Cabinet committees with regard to issues of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. I will also inform the House that it was agreed at the North-South Ministerial Council that we will work on this on a North-South basis. I thank the First Minister and deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland for their engagement with us on this. That is an indication of how seriously this issue is being taken, as it should and must be, across the island of Ireland.

I will not use all of my time to let people know what we are doing in this area.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

We are doing things. We have established Cuan, the national agency. We have a zero-tolerance strategy. We are seeing funding for additional safe spaces. The Minister for justice is taking this matter extraordinarily seriously. He has secured Government approval to progress the criminal law (sexual violence, domestic violence and international instruments) Bill 2025, which includes measures to allow perpetrators of domestic violence to be included on a new register run by the courts and to strengthen the law further in relation to sexual consent, which is a very important step to take. I will not comment on the work of the DPP for fear of challenge in respect of the separation of powers but I take the Deputy's point on our criminal justice system and legal system needing to take this extraordinarily seriously.

Instinctively, I agree with what the Deputy has said about counselling notes. Cases should be heard on the evidence before them. When somebody goes to seek counselling or therapy, that confidentiality, privacy and sensitivity matters. I will not say something in this House that turns out to be legally wrong but the Government will try to get as close to what the Deputy suggests as is possible. We will take very seriously the recommendations of the justice committee and the recommendations and work of the likes of the Rape Crisis Centre, which has a very significant degree of expertise. I will commit the Government to working collaboratively and closely across the House on this matter and will specifically engage with the Minister for justice on the issues the Deputy has raised.

Comment on this

I was here on a Thursday for the last debate on gender-based violence. It was pretty empty and it was many months ago. I get Leaders' Questions once a month, so I would appreciate if the Tánaiste could focus on the issue of the counselling notes and the DPP. He did at the end there; fair play.

On the counselling notes, the Minister has drafted a Bill under massive pressure and after campaigning by survivors who should not have to do this. Sarah Grace told the world she would nearly rather be attacked again than go back into our courts system. That should be a cause for real concern. One of the issues has been therapy notes being used by the defence. The Minister has drafted a Bill but it leaves the option open. A judge will decide if they can be included. Even the fact that such a decision could be made is traumatic. It is forcing many people to choose between therapy or a trial. What the Minister is proposing is the easy route but not the correct route. I ask the Tánaiste to ask him to go back to the drawing board. With his legal acumen and all the legal expertise the Government has, he should be able to come up with a way to rule out counselling notes as evidence in a fair trial in line with the Constitution.

Maybe we could return later to the question of the DPP, if not today. It is a real problem for Nikita Hand, who had to take a civil case - God knows the difference she made by doing so - and people like Becca, who did every single thing right but did not get her day in court.

Comment on this
Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Nikita Hand is an incredible woman who I have had the honour of speaking to. I think our media need to reflect on the amount of coverage they give to some people who represent the very worst of us - vile individuals - versus the attention and focus they give to courageous, incredible people like Nikita Hand. How these issues are framed in the media should also be considered. I am not disagreeing with the Deputy on this. I do not think anybody in this House, regardless of party politics, will disagree with the idea that counselling notes should not be part of a criminal trial. I accept fully the logic of the point about the chilling effect of the possibility of notes being used. I agree with the Deputy on that point. I accept her challenge in terms of understanding the legal advice available to the Minister as to why the Bill as currently drafted is the way it is, and seeing if there is the possibility of making further changes. I do not want to make a commitment on the floor of the House that I cannot deliver on, but I am committed to having that conversation with Government colleagues and coming back to the Deputy directly.

Comment on this