Taxi drivers have been staging protests about Uber, a billion euro company that is pushing a fixed-fare model onto drivers. They held a briefing here in the Dáil yesterday where representatives reported that this model, if it succeeded, could cut the earnings of many drivers by 30% to 50% and undercut those who do not even use Uber. There will be significant repercussions for the 22,000 licensed taxi drivers, a very important cohort of the workforce in this country. It could also potentially lead to a massive increase in work hours, with the implications of that for fatigue and public safety. Taxi drivers described it as a bombshell. They were very emotional talking about the vilification they had endured on social media, for example, for the action they took in recent weeks.

The Irish taxi system was regulated to protect drivers' livelihoods and to protect customer service for the general public. It is governed by the NTA on behalf of the Government and is licensed, Garda vetted, has vehicle standards and a public fare review every two years that the public can feed into and under which taxi drivers have themselves rejected increases. Is the Government at all concerned that this system of regulation is threatened by massive corporations that are not even based in this country and do not necessarily pay tax in this country?

The fixed-fare option for passengers can look great in theory. No matter what event happens - a road closure, diversion, toll, crash or whatever - they will not pay more than that price. However, any of the extra costs - time lost or extra fuel - are borne completely by the drivers, and passengers should not be fooled. In the US, from 2018 to 2024, Uber increased its prices by 18% per year. At the same time, drivers got 12% less than under the previous model. Uber gets it in and then ramps up the charges. I do not have time to explain it but the dynamic pricing these apps are using is completely different to anything that has gone before. They are using AI and behavioural patterns of individual drivers. They are following the types of fare they normally take and then sending them fares. They are completely individualising it. The CEO of Uber talked about offering the right trip at the right price to the right driver. Uber monitors work patterns and ultimately monitors each driver to increase its profits. The model allows Uber to sell a driver's time to a passenger for the maximum it can get while paying the driver the minimum they will accept.

To pose the question, why did the Minister for Transport not meet the taxi drivers yesterday rather than sending his officials to the taxi driver committee? Will the Government ensure that the publicly managed and regulated system of taxi driving is maintained? Will it ensure that algorithms are not allowed to decide the fare structure in this country or the conditions workers have to tolerate?

The Deputy should conclude.

I thank Deputy Coppinger for raising what is an important issue, particularly at this time of year. We should all be cognisant and reminded of the great work taxi drivers and hackney drivers do all over the country in bringing us home safely in communities across the country, particularly when we are all so anxious to ensure that people do not drink and drive. We want people to go out and enjoy themselves and the reliance on night-time economy workers like taxi drivers and hackney drivers is very important. The Minister, Deputy O'Brien, is on Government business abroad at present. I agree with the Deputy that no one should be vilified for any approach they take as regards their relationships with either State structures or anything else. I would just like to put that on the record.

The Minister wrote to the National Transport Authority, NTA, to request clarification on the regulatory position on the Uber fixed-price fare for the information of taxi operators and public reps alike. In the response to his letter, the Minister was advised by the NTA that the charging of a fixed-price fare was in accordance with the applicable regulations. He was also advised that the NTA continued to keep the regulatory model under review. The Minister instructed his senior departmental officials to meet the NTA to discuss the response. Following the meeting, which took place on Tuesday, 9 December, the Minister formally requested the urgent consideration of the matter by the advisory committee on small public service vehicles. That is to take place today.

I am sure the Deputy will agree that it is important that these discussions be allowed to take place without feeling pressure from anybody, including anybody in the House. The advisory committee on small public service vehicles is an independent body, established under the taxi regulations of 2013. Its primary function is to provide advice to the NTA as the regulator and to the Minister for Transport regarding taxis, hackneys and their drivers. Members of the committee include drivers, operators, representatives of consumer interests, disability interests, local government, An Garda Síochána and the tourism sector.

I hope that, after today, we might have a greater degree of clarity. The Minister is on Government business abroad at present, and I am sure that when he returns to the House next week, we will have greater clarity in this regard.

There are two things that need to happen. The drivers need to boycott Uber, and everybody here - TDs and other public figures - should say they will not use Uber because of what it is doing to these drivers. However, that is not sufficient, because we also need to legislate. Will the Government prohibit the use of algorithms to set fares and will it legislate to prohibit apps acting as third parties in negotiations on the fare between passengers and drivers? I am not saying they cannot negotiate, but negotiations would have to be done human to human. Will the Government conduct an urgent review of the app-based taxi fare models and their compliance with taxi regulations?

The Minister stated that the NTA said this was in accordance with the regulations. The apps are exploiting something whereby a driver can agree to take a lower fare from somebody who can only afford to pay, for example, €20 when it should be €25. A goodwill gesture, if you like, for a woman who might be stuck at night and is being brought home. That loophole is being used by these companies to bring in this fixed-fare model.

Will Government develop a publicly managed NTA taxi hailing app? Why rely on these massive corporations that are only interested in greed and profit to set the standards for public transport in this country?

The Deputy will be aware that the NTA is an independent transport regulator of the taxi sector. It is not for the Minister for Transport to intervene in the day-to-day operations of the sector, no more that it is for any Minister who has set up, or has under their remit, a regulatory authority, be it in health, my own Department, justice or wherever. It is not within the ambit or the remit of the line Minister to interfere in the day-to-day operations of the regulatory authority. Based on the information made available to me by the Department of Transport, there is an opportunity today, deoxygenated in many ways, to have a discussion around this between the two parties that are critical of it in the hope that they can arrive at a workable solution. I encourage people to allow them the space and the time to do that, particularly at this time of year. All of our towns rely to a massive degree on taxi drivers and hackney drivers for Christmas shopping, Christmas parties and everything else. At the end of the day, I hope we can get a resolution. I am sure that the Minister will be back in the House next week and there will be other opportunities, either in the transport committee or in the Dáil, to raise the matter directly with him.