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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Trump, Maduro and foreign policy

Summary

Ruth Coppinger questioned the Taoiseach’s stance on Donald Trump, Venezuela and Ireland’s approach to authoritarian leaders, while Paul Murphy and others interrupted. The Taoiseach defended Trump’s election, condemned Maduro’s regime, and insisted Ireland had not compromised its principles in relations with the US, Europe, Ukraine and the Middle East.

There is a very famous poem, which I am sure the Taoiseach knows, by Pastor Martin Niemöller, "First They came". It begins:

First they came for the communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a communist

Then it says:

I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

Then it is a trade unionist, then a Jew. Of course, eventually there was nobody left to speak out. It is easily transferable to the Taoiseach's approach to the actions of the US President and the Trump regime. You could insert "Mexicans", "migrants", "Muslims" or "peaceful protestors" into any of those lines. Who must they come for before the Taoiseach will speak out? He has not spoken out about Trump's attack on Venezuela and the kidnapping of its leader or about the bombing of Iran. He still has not even ruled out going on the Board of Peace for Palestine that Trump is proposing - a disgusting collection of war criminals aiming to turn Gaza into Vegas. Where does he stand on the unleashing of ICE, operating in the US as a modern Gestapo or as modern-day slave traders? I am sorry this is causing amusement. It is actually very serious.

A new poll by Amárach yesterday showed the Taoiseach is out of sync with the majority of the Irish population. Some 47% do not want the leader of our country to go to the White House on our national holiday and give publicity to a dangerous demagogue, colonialist, racist and sexual predator, while 35% do. The Irish public is again ahead of the political establishment. They want the Taoiseach to show a moral backbone.

St. Patrick's Day is particularly about the Irish migration experience. What an insult to celebrate it with somebody who is terrorising migrants as we speak. There are many despots in the world but I would like the Taoiseach to focus on the one he is going to greet on St. Patrick's Day. Louis XIV said "L'État, c'est moi" - "The State is me"; Trump is saying "Le monde, c'est moi" - "The world is me". He has to be stopped.

The Taoiseach was questioned on this last week and said, "bread on the table". Have he and Fine Gael led us to the point where our economic policy is so reliant on American FDI that we are in moral bankruptcy when it comes to these issues? The single biggest fear of American multinationals pulling out was the housing crisis that the Taoiseach has created - nothing else.

Has the Taoiseach seen the videos from Minnesota? People shout across the streets, "They're coming. Stay inside." They whistle to defend and warn their neighbours. Children are screaming in detention camps, modern-day concentration camps for kids. There is a protest going on in one as we speak. US cities are in revolt against Trump. Which side is the Taoiseach on? Will he go and shake hands with the tyrant who is calling them domestic terrorists or will he show solidarity with the ordinary people of the US challenging this dictator?

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I find the Deputy's contribution interesting-----

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-----because she quotes the poem, "First They Came." That is more applicable to the Maduro regime than------

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It is. What is the "aw" about?

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You are not giving Maduro a bowl of shamrock. He will be on trial the day you go, actually.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

This is not a back-and-forth, Deputy.

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President Trump was democratically elected by the American people in an emphatic electoral victory. The Deputy may not like that but she cannot actually dispute it. Maduro stole the election and had a regime of repression that was reprehensible.

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That is not her question.

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I am answering the question.

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They are executing people on the streets of Minneapolis and you are going to give him a bowl of shamrock.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Murphy, you know how this works.

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They are executing people.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Taoiseach will be within his rights to sit down.

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It was a regime of repression and that regime came for people. It created the largest migration out of Venezuela ever in that country's history. I met with migrants from Venezuela when I was at COP. They told me in a very sad way of the demise and destruction of their country by Maduro and Chávez before him.

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You only have another minute to talk the clock down.

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People on the other side of the House were sneaking regarders of the Maduro regime. It always strikes me as extraordinary that the main Opposition party attended his inauguration. That is the difference in the House here. Let us be under no illusions.

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I am. Of course I am.

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You are a disgrace. Answer the question.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Murphy, it is not your question.

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We have compromised not one iota of our values in terms of our engagement with the United States-----

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-----or in terms of our position, for example, on the Middle East, where there was significant pushback. Ireland is recognised around the world as asserting its principled position. I salute what Prime Minister Carney said at Davos. It is exactly what we have been doing: application of principle and pragmatism. The principle is we believe in an international rules-based order. We have not compromised on that and will not.

When it came to Greenland, we very firmly and calmly, along with our European partners and member states - Deputy Coppinger has no time for the European Union but I will say it anyway - did not compromise our core position in terms of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Greenland and Denmark. We did not compromise at all. That remains our position but I believe in engagement. I do not believe in the Deputy's approach that we should not engage with anybody. If I was to apply her approach, there are many people in the world we would not be engaging with. She is very selective. Her party and group has an obsession with the United States. It does not have to be President Trump; it could be President Biden or President Obama.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Taoiseach.

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That has been a consistent thread in that group's presentations here for the past two decades.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Now, Deputy Coppinger.

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Not just Deputy Coppinger personally but people with her and Deputy Murphy and so on like that.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Thank you, Taoiseach. Deputy Coppinger to respond.

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"Bread on the table" is about workers of this country-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Taoiseach, time is up. It is Deputy Coppinger's turn to respond.

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------who you purport to represent. You ignore the reality of the importance of that economic relationship.

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