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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Bertie Ahern comments on migration

Summary

Deputy Bacik condemned Bertie Ahern’s remarks on Muslims and broader migration rhetoric, and the Chair repeatedly warned against mentioning the by-election. The Tánaiste denounced racism, said the comments were wrong, and argued that migration must still be debated respectfully and factually.

The comments of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern are deeply disturbing. Particularly alarming was the way in which he singled out specific ethnic, religious and national identities. More than being just offensive and irresponsible, his language was dangerous and inflammatory. For a politician who devoted so much of his career to finding a resolution to the Troubles - a conflict based on religious division - it was shameful to hear him refer to a child's religion, Islam, when he said he is worried about the next generation of Muslims.

In the context of the Dublin Central by-election, it was profoundly wrong to use language that could direct public anger towards migrants and minorities. We have already heard a candidate in that constituency make an outrageous call for internment of refugees. In the other by-election in Galway West, a torrent of despicable online racist abuse has been directed at the Labour Party candidate, Councillor Helen Ogbu.

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John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

The Deputy should not refer to by-elections.

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Meta has failed to take responsibility for the hate speech it is facilitating.

The former Taoiseach, Mr. Ahern, remains a member of the Council of State. He is more than just a private person making ignorant remarks at a doorstep. As he should know, discourse around migration must be rooted in facts, humanity and respect. That is why the Labour Party, just last month, launched the Together We Thrive campaign. Our promotes the urgent need for a fair, fact-based national conversation on migration that highlights the enormously positive contribution made by those with migrant backgrounds to our society and our economy, and this is clear from the figures.

We know the health and social care sectors, in particular, rely heavily on migrant workers. The Tánaiste knows that nearly one in four nurses and midwives employed by the HSE comes from abroad. I met this morning with representatives of Nursing Homes Ireland, who confirmed that the nursing home sector simply could not function without the migrant workers who make up a huge proportion of its workforce. However, we are failing many of those migrant workers. I met yesterday with members of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO. They told me about the enormous delays in the system for nurses working here who seek to have spouses and children join them from abroad. I heard directly from those affected heartbreaking stories of family separation due to the delays in processing visas for family reunification. I spoke to a mother who works in cancer care in Rathgar, in my constituency, whose two daughters aged 4 and 7 have been living in Ghana with their grandmother for the past two years while they wait for permission to come here.

We are failing the people whose work is building our communities. We need to change our rhetoric and improve their reality. We must improve the family reunification process. Moreover, we need to be careful about our language. Does the Tánaiste condemn Bertie Ahern's comments? Will he call on him to apologise? Will he support my party's Together We Thrive campaign for a fair, fact-based and positive conversation about migration?

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

At the outset, while respecting the rules of the House in relation to by-elections, let me say that I absolutely deplore, condemn and abhor any racism directed towards any candidate in this democracy. I want to be very clear in relation to the comments of the former Taoiseach: they were not appropriate and they were wrong. It absolutely is perfectly legitimate in this country - in fact, I would even go so far as to say it is essential - that we debate migration policy. No one has an issue with that. It is important to debate it. We might have different views and perspectives on it, and that is okay. It is important that we debate the laws and systems around migration. No one has an issue with that.

The policy of the Government has been clear. Anyone who comes to Ireland seeking asylum from outside the EU or outside the EEA should be treated humanely and in accordance with international law. They have a right to be here and their application should be processed quickly. We have been trying to do our bit to ensure faster processing times. Of course, as per the point the Deputy is making, most people who come to Ireland do not come through the international protection system. They come through a whole variety of other ways, legitimately and legally, to play a positive role in our country. I take up the opportunity the Deputy has afforded, as I hope will everyone in the House, to recognise the very positive contribution those people make to Irish society and the Irish economy. Having people come here to work or study contributes to our country and makes our republic better and more complete.

Of course, as I said, we can have sensible and rational discussions on migration policy. The same is happening in every country in the world. That is different. However, it is never acceptable to single out an entire group of people based on their race, ethnicity or religion. That only serves to demonise or stigmatise a group of people and it is not a helpful contribution; in fact, it is hurtful. I was struck by the comments by the chief imam of the Islamic Centre of Ireland, Shaykh Dr. Umar Al-Qadri, that Mr. Ahern's remarks were offensive to all immigrants. He said it is important to discuss the challenges facing the country openly and honestly, that it is important to do so in a democracy and that we should always be willing to do it but that we should avoid the kind of rhetoric that would seek to scapegoat an entire community.

We benefit hugely from people who come here and make Ireland their home. They are working in our public services, including, as Deputy Bacik mentioned, as nurses, doctors and healthcare assistants. Hospitals would not function without people coming here. We are a better country as a result of people coming here. As I said, it is perfectly legitimate to debate migration policy and the systems we have. However, we should never group people based on religion, nationality or race. The former Taoiseach's comments have caused hurt and harm. I am sure that was not the intention. I certainly hope it was not the intention. I am sure it was not. It is important that everyone in this House, of all parties and none, is united in terms of being very clear on our views in this regard.

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I thank the Tánaiste for his comment that Bertie Ahern's remarks were not appropriate and were wrong. Will he go further by calling them out and calling on Mr. Ahern to apologise? It is ironic, as the Tánaiste will appreciate as Fine Gael leader, that Bertie Ahern should have the temerity to fuel rhetoric that blames immigrants for systemic problems in Ireland. This is the man whose policies brought about the worst financial crash in the history of the State. Since that crash, migrants have played a pivotal role in rebuilding our economy. Let us acknowledge that.

We should look around this Chamber. We are dealing today with an outrageous slur made by a former Taoiseach against people of African heritage and descent. Yet, in this Chamber, there is no one of colour. There is no African voice to testify to the hurt those comments caused or to testify at first hand about the direct experience of racism.

My Labour colleagues and I very much hope that will change after the Galway West by-election. We know we have a candidate who exemplifies the new Ireland. I am not going to speak any further-----

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-----but we hope that will change.

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John McGuinness An Leas-Cheann Comhairle Fianna Fáil

Deputy Bacik should not make reference to the candidates or the by-elections. That was agreed by the House. She is showing poor example in what she is doing this morning.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Simon Harris The Tánaiste Fine Gael

Are there by-elections on, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle? Sorry - I will certainly respect the rules of the House and take that point, but I also take the serious point the Deputy made because it is a serious issue. There are people feeling hurt today and we have to acknowledge that. I feel very strongly that we have to facilitate – the Deputy suggested ways we could do this and it is worth exploring those – ways of being able to debate migration in this country. That is a legitimate and important part of our democracy. We will all have different views, for example, on whether we should opt into the EU asylum pact. We believe we should, some people do not. We have different views and that is fine. That is politics and policy. It is evidence and debates that we will follow and work our way through. That is what we should be doing in this House. However, that is different to making comments grouping people based on race, religion or ethnicity. I am quite sure it was unintentional but those comments have caused significant hurt to a significant number of people who make a very fine contribution to our public services and society. It is up to individuals what they wish to do, but I am quite sure, knowing Bertie Ahern, that he did not intend that harm and, therefore, he should reflect on it further.

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