Sick pay and long-term illness
Deputy Gogarty raises the harsh drop in income for workers who become seriously ill after long service and PRSI contributions, saying statutory sick pay and flat-rate supports do not reflect previous earnings. The Minister says the system should be improved through a process, targeted support and engagement on the Deputy's proposal.
I concur with my colleagues about the ongoing Israeli atrocities in Gaza and their mistreatment of 14 Irish citizens. I would like to see the Minister do as much as she can on this.
The issue I want to raise is that in Ireland right now, a worker can give 20 or 30 years of service, pay full PRSI, pay the higher rate of tax, contribute to the economy every single day and then the moment they face a serious illness, they are hit hard. After a handful of statutory sick pay days, they are pushed onto a flat-rate payment. That bears no connection to their original income or contributions or the financial responsibilities they have based on those ongoing contributions. It is a social protection system that is not fit for purpose. It is a bit of a patchwork that sees people who are contributing to the tax take hit hard at the very moment they are most vulnerable. I welcome statutory sick leave. It was a great first step but we need a new model, a bit like the pensions plan that was introduced. It has its critics but it is a model that could be replicated in this regard with a hybrid system where employers, employees and the State all contribute to a fair and sustainable sick pay structure that is to an extent based on income and replaces a realistic percentage of that income and protect affected low-, middle- and higher-income workers and recognise the decades of contributions they have made.
I recently got a message from a constituent who is battling hard against breast cancer, which, as the Minister knows, affects one in seven women. She is someone with a well-paid job. She studied and worked hard to get to the level she is at and she raises the valid point about helping those who have contributed over many years. She states:
I'm currently off work, My employer paid me a percentage of my salary for eight months. I got back to work for six months and then I had to go out again. I have had five surgical procedures in four months, including one major surgery. I am getting €250 a week. My medicine costs €170 month, as one of my meds is high tech and not covered. I have a mortgage, car, etc. I paid the higher rate of tax, I would say, for over 20 years, if not more. I worked very hard throughout my career. I made significant contributions along the way. Unfortunately, my recovery hasn't been straightforward. Work is an important part of my DNA and I miss all the social interaction. I was brought up to be independent. I've been fortunate enough that I did get some sick pay from my employer and I did have some insurance cover in place, savings for college fees. etc. However, I've been sick for over two years, I have been impacted financially and there are many, many people in the same boat I've met through my illness, some without any supports and it's not right. People who, like me, paid taxes at the higher rate throughout. I think the State should provide, when needed, appropriate illness support, based on taxes paid and cancer should absolutely be seen as a long-term illness with appropriate supports, especially in this case, breast cancer.
I would like the Minister's thoughts on this and whether such a hybrid model could be looked at.
Comment on this
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. While I know he is specifically talking about somebody with cancer or a long-term illness and the implications for them and their families long term, this could apply to a number of different scenarios for people. As a country, how we treat those who are at their most vulnerable is a testament to who we are. It is a sign of who we are as a Government, as a society and as a community. The Government that I have been a part of - not just now but in previous years - has always strived and focused on looking at how we can support those who need our help most, how we can support those who are not in a position to work first and foremost perhaps because of illness, a disability or other factors in their lives and how we can ensure that those who work for most of their lives and contribute at the higher or lower rate of tax but through no fault of their own find themselves in a situation where they cannot work and provide for themselves or their family are provided with the support they are entitled to. As the Deputy said, we have, I believe, made good progress in recent years. We have made good progress when it comes to supporting people who are self-employed, where before there was no ability to support them if they were suddenly not able to work. That is through a new contributory process introduced in recent years. We now have extended statutory sick leave in a number of formats. It is an area in which we always need to strive to do more. From the situation the Deputy has outlined, I am thinking in particular of somebody I knew myself, who sadly, has passed away. For this person, even things like getting home insurance because of a long-term illness became such a challenge, even with a partner working. The Government is moving to try to address this. We want to make sure that if people are in remission or on the mend, they are able to get on with their lives, because that is what people want to do. They do not want to be seen with a heading or a bracket over them for the rest of their lives.
The Deputy has made a proposal with potential changes that we could put in place to support people who cannot work, who are in long-term unemployment and where it does not look like returning to work is a possible avenue for them, where we seek to align the supports they get more in line with where they were in their previous career. Again, I think of an example in my own constituency, albeit not the same in terms of an illness. Workers in Tara Mines were on a particular salary and were laid off for an indefinite period. The Government came together to support them to try to put in place a mechanism that filled much of the gap between their previous salary and what they were getting from the State. The point the Deputy has made is one we all support and I have not doubt the Minister for Social Protection will do so in the upcoming budget. More generally, when it comes to our overall taxation measures, we should look at how we can support people who are at their most vulnerable and not in a position to go back to work because of health or other reasons but who want to be able to get on with the rest of their lives.
Comment on this
I am flagging the issue. I am not expecting overnight action but in the context of the budget, it could be a process moving on. I am a firm believer in developing an entrepreneurial and creative society and giving people the opportunity to move forward. However, we have to protect the most vulnerable, as I and others have said all the time. The old Marx quote is probably the only bit of Marxism that is still relevant today: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." There are people who have contributed over many years who then get into a position of need. The reason I mentioned people with long-term illnesses and particularly the lady recovering from breast cancer, is as well as being out of work, they have additional costs and they do not have that support base at a time they have contributed and they need that little bit of extra help. It is a valid point to make and I take on board what the Minister has said. I hope that there may be some sort of a process that could help people in the short to medium term.
Comment on this
What we need to do is build on what we have and always try to improve the system. When we live in a country where our economy is growing strong because of the people the Deputy mentioned who have contributed to it for many years, we need to ensure that we are reinvesting in those people, our communities and our economy and, in particular, targeting those who need our help the most. I have no doubt that the proposal the Deputy has put forward could be the first step of a process. Everything starts with a process and it is about engaging with the right people and making sure that anything we provide is targeted. It is also about making sure that where there are opportunities for people to work perhaps in different fields or in a different area that might be less pressurised and might still provide them with some form of income, we do that. This has been a priority over the past number of years, particularly post the economic crash from 2011 or so. We need to continue to look at ways in which we can support people back into the workplace, into different types of work while recognising and acknowledging that there are some people who simply cannot and how do we support them at a time when they need it.