Occupied Territories Bill and services
Mary Lou McDonald argues that excluding services from the proposed ban on goods from occupied Palestinian territories would undermine the Bill. The Taoiseach defends the Government’s support for Palestine, says services cannot be practically or legally restricted, warns of consequences for Irish jobs, and argues that effective pressure requires European or US action.
Cuirimid fáilte roimh an Teachta Ennis agus an Teachta Kyne sa Teach.
The Minister for foreign affairs has brought draft legislation to the Cabinet which will ban trade in goods from the occupied Palestinian territories. On the Taoiseach's way into the Cabinet this morning, he made it clear that services are to be excluded, so the Government has taken a wrecking ball to the original occupied territories Bill. The Taoiseach is aware that 70% of trade between Ireland and the occupied territories is in services and that the Bill was designed to end the shameful economic support provided to Israel's illegal settlements. Yet, the Government has hollowed out the legislation, rendering it ineffective.
The Taoiseach's argument, that including services is impossible to implement, simply does not stack up. The occupied territories Bill is in line with the ruling of the International Court of Justice, a ruling that makes no distinction between goods and services. In fact, banning services is required under international law. Spain has included services in its legislation, so it can be done.
The occupied territories Bill has a long history. It was passed in the Seanad in 2018 and in the Dáil in 2019 and it continues to enjoy overwhelming public support. The Government has paid it plenty of lip service. For eight years, it has said it will support the occupied territories Bill, but it has stalled, delayed and blocked it, and now it has gutted the Bill. This is the Government's response, its approach, after 14 Irish citizens on a humanitarian flotilla to Gaza were kidnapped, detained and brutalised by Israeli forces. This is the Government's response and approach to the slaughter and genocide in Gaza, as Palestinian men, women and children are wiped out every single day.
It is the Government's response to mass displacement, enforced starvation and the obliteration of civilian infrastructure, all at the hands of a ruthless apartheid regime - a regime gifted impunity by world leaders, including the Taoiseach. Caithfidh seirbhísí a bheith san áireamh sa reachtaíocht ionas go mbeidh sé éifeachtach. Caithfidh an Dáil an bunleagan den Bhille ina iomláine a rith. Ireland should and must be leading on this question. The Taoiseach must make clear that the theft of Palestinian land will not be rewarded with economic support; that Ireland will stand up for human rights and international law; and that Ireland stands with Palestine. Excluding services and pushing forward with hollowed out legislation is a cop-out and a dangerous one. It cannot happen. The people of Palestine, of Gaza, slaughtered, besieged, brutalised and starved look to Ireland for support and we simply cannot turn our backs. Services along with goods must be banned. The sanction must be effective. Either the Taoiseach accepts international law or he does not. Ireland must be on the right side of history. Last week, I wrote to the Taoiseach and I urged him to work constructively with the Opposition to pass the original occupied territories Bill in full. That is what must happen.
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Ní aontaím leis an méid atá ráite ag an Teachta mar tá Éire agus a Rialtas chun tosaigh agus muid ag seasamh suas do na Palaistínigh. Tá sé sin ráite ag na Palaistínigh. Deir Údarás Náisiúnta na Palaistínigh i gcónaí go bhfuil ár dtír chun tosaigh maidir le tacaíocht a thabhairt do na Palaistínigh. I do not accept the Deputy's proposition in terms of how she has distorted the Irish Government’s position in relation to the cause of Palestinian self-determination. From the outset, we have taken a series of measures that have been at the leading edge in terms of any Europe Union's member state's response to the genocide in Gaza, the continued violent behaviour of the settlers in the West Bank, and the continuing war in Lebanon, which is completely unjustified. We recognised the State of Palestine, along with Spain, for example, and Slovenia did so after us, in a broader move to try to get a peace accord going within the Middle East in terms of a Palestinian State. We intervened in the South African case before the-----
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-----International Court of Justice in terms of the case there in respect of genocide. We have provided very significant support to Palestinians, up to €146 million up to this year. In terms of UNRWA in particular, we took a leading role in Europe to stem the momentum at the time of taking aid away from UNRWA after Israeli allegations against UNRWA personnel. We held back that momentum and then we doubled down in terms of doubling our own provision of finance to UNRWA itself. We did this consistently in all international forums. The Attorney General has argued before the ICJ in respect of the impacts of the illegal occupation of Palestine. At the United Nations General Assembly, we, of course, sponsored resolutions in terms of seeking to implement the court's advisory opinion.
There is no justification for the assertions Deputy McDonald has made. I know her objective is to sort of attack the Government, sometimes even more than the Israeli Government. That is the objective. In terms of the occupied territories Bill, we need a bit of honesty across the House. We need absolute honesty here. Let us not overstate the impact of this either way.
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My experience has been that as soon as we do something, like we did with the recognition or whatever else, Sinn Féin moves on very quickly and dismisses it.
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That has been the standard practice. First of all, the original Bill could not go through the House because it would not have been legal in terms of how it was framed. In terms of services-----
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It is illegal to trade with occupied territories.
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On goods, by whatever yardstick is used, about €200,000 worth of goods - fruit and vegetables - come in from the settlements. That is what comes in.
Services are intangible, as someone described them. It is impossible to implement. Could we have some honesty about that? There is an issue in terms of what will happen if services were included in terms of jobs in this country and potential attacks on multinationals that are based here.
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You just said it. Now you have said it.
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That is the reality. People can dismiss that all they want; I do not dismiss it. I have to protect about 250,000 jobs in this country too, and there is a real issue-----
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-----that people are turning a blind eye to in terms of this being something we can do casually to which nobody is going to pay a blind bit of notice. There have been a lot of attacks on Ireland because of the leadership stance we have taken as a Government.
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So defend against the attacks.
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The Irish people have always taken a principled and morally ethical stance on the question of Palestine. Of that there is no doubt. Unfortunately, the Irish Government has not followed suit. The truth and the honest position are that the Government has had to be dragged into taking any kind of positive stance, facing down the impunity of Israel and accepting that until there are consequences for Israel and the Netanyahu regime, they will continue to slaughter Palestinians, they will continue to occupy land and they will continue with their apartheid regime. The only answer is sanctions. That is why the occupied territories Bill matters. It has to include both goods and services. Spain included services, so why on earth can Ireland not? Sanctions are the only thing that will work with Israel - economic, cultural and sporting. The Irish football team should not be playing Israel under any circumstances.
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Very few countries have gone down this route. Spain and Ireland are going down this route in terms of the banning of goods. We hope Belgium and the Netherlands will follow suit. It looks like Slovenia will not be in a position now because the Government has changed in Slovenia. The Government that has been elected has a completely different issue. It must be at European level if we are to have any impact on Israel. Even at European level, I am trying to be honest with people here, how does one have impact on the Israeli Government, Netanyahu and these people? The bottom line is-----
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Stop the bombs. Stop allowing Shannon to be used.
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That is all rubbish about Shannon and all that nonsense. It has no impact on Netanyahu.
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Really, how do you know? You do not check.
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It is just sloganeering. All that is happening is sloganeering and shallow rhetoric that is devoid of any substance. There are two major powers that could influence Israel. Fundamentally, the US can. Second, maybe, a unanimous European Union position on the EU-Israel Association Agreement. Those are potentially the two ways to get----