We will now proceed with the business. For the first Leaders' Questions of the session, I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald.

RTÉ has reported very serious allegations and tonight four Garda whistleblowers will speak publicly on them for the very first time. They will detail how the process for reporting and investigating wrongdoing within the Garda has been repeatedly undermined by senior management, including former Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris. A process was established in the aftermath of scandals that rocked An Garda Síochána more than a decade ago, in particular the treatment of sergeant Maurice McCabe. At that time, we were promised a fresh start. However, the Garda whistleblowers on tonight's programme say that instead of being protected, whistleblowers are targeted, penalised and vilified by those at the very top for making disclosures of wrongdoing. Protected disclosures made by these whistleblowers include the dangerous storage, movement and handling of firearms, defective ammunition and the issuing of defective holsters - all of which put gardaí at risk.

Those speaking out are senior members of An Garda Síochána. They include Dr. Donal Corcoran, the person who was in charge of the Garda protected disclosures office; Ms Rose Sweeney, a case manager; and Detective Superintendent Brian O’Reilly, head of the Garda Technical Bureau. What is absolutely astonishing here is that the very person running the protected disclosures office, Dr. Corcoran, and another charged with managing protected disclosures cases, Ms Sweeney, were themselves forced to make a protected disclosure. The question is: why? They state they did so because of the wrongdoing they observed and the absolute hostility they encountered in the Garda culture. They too became whistleblowers, and they too were targeted and penalised. Ms Sweeney says that she was repeatedly pressured to close files prematurely. Dr. Corcoran says that after he made his protected disclosure he was targeted and forced out of his job, reassigned a different role, sent to an office on the other side of the building, given no real work and left to spend his day staring at the four walls.

Why was Donal Corcoran so ruthlessly targeted and penalised? On whose order was Donal Corcoran removed from his job? Who repeatedly pressured Ms Sweeney to close files prematurely, and why? Why has this culture of hostility among the most senior management towards Garda whistleblowers been allowed to grow and go unchallenged?

Members of the Garda go to work every day to protect us and they in turn deserve to be protected when they step forward to blow the whistle on wrongdoing. However, instead of being supported they are being destroyed. Following the disgusting treatment of Maurice McCabe we were assured things would change but more than a decade on, we learn that hostility towards whistleblowers and towards accountability at the highest echelons of the Garda is as bad as ever.

Did any member of Government know about this? What action will the Taoiseach take to establish precisely what happened and what is currently going on within the Garda protected disclosures system?

First of all, I have not seen the programme yet and I did not hear any of the material on radio this morning; I did not get the opportunity. The first thing I will do is get an opportunity to see the programme itself. I will not see it live tonight. I am at a function this evening but I hope to get an opportunity. I will get to see it. It is difficult to pre-empt seeing the entirety of it. Deputy McDonald is asking me to comment before the programme airs. That is problematic - day one. The second point is that there is, as the Deputy knows well, comprehensive legislation governing whistleblowers and there are robust structures, policies and procedures in place across the criminal justice system - indeed, across the entire governmental system. That is to ensure the effective management of protected disclosures and to provide support to people making disclosures under the Protected Disclosures Act 2014, which was amended in 2022. Those Acts were part of the then Government's comprehensive approach to strengthening protections available to whistleblowers, including members of An Garda Síochána. Under the Acts and the legislation, as the Deputy knows, Garda members and staff may confidentially disclose allegations of wrongdoing within An Garda Síochána to An Garda Síochána or to Fiosrú, and An Garda Síochána and Fiosrú are operationally independent and both bodies have their own protected disclosures mechanisms in place.

The Deputy's questions at the end were fairly loaded as if she was suggesting someone politically might have ordered. I hope she was not. I am not clear what she was saying by putting those questions. We are not operationally involved in protected disclosures. Government Ministers are not either. There is a very distinct mechanism in place and both An Garda Síochána and Fiosrú have their own protected disclosures mechanisms. The Act also affords protection to persons making protected disclosures.

Again, part of that protection rightly prioritises the confidentiality of the process, which is central to the efficacy of the process. There is a real paradox here now in that the very people within An Garda Síochána, or within the management and so on, are actually not in a position to comment specifically because protected disclosures have been served. That is something, because the Oireachtas passed this. There was never any issue about this and about the confidential nature of it as a protection for those who might wish to make a protected disclosure in any area of public administration.

Again, I will look at the programme. In the first instance, a new protected disclosures unit was established by the Garda Commissioner in January of 2025 within the Garda professional standards unit. My understanding is that was undertaken to strengthen the arrangements in place for investigating protected disclosures; strengthen in terms of personnel and exclusive control. By that I mean rather than having part-time people overseeing protective disclosures that there be a dedicated unit with a dedicated lead person in respect of it.

I am given to understand from An Garda Síochána and the Department of justice that An Garda Síochána encourages and supports employees in disclosing wrongdoing. Any allegations that have been made under the Protected Disclosures Act to An Garda Síochána are treated seriously and are examined for any potential discipline or criminal matters that may arise, so there is a process under way already.

Is rud an-tábhachtach é seo. I dtús báire, caithfidh mé an clár a fheiceáil.

Although the programme has not yet aired, certainly the central kernel of the issue has been published by RTÉ. In fact, there is extensive material in the public domain on the core issues - not the detail perhaps but the core issues at play here - so I am surprised that the Taoiseach or somebody around him has not briefed him on that. Be that as it may, the nub of this is simply this. Tonight, the very person, Dr. Donal Corcoran, who was in charge of running the protected disclosures office will tell a story of how he and others experienced and observed consistent undermining of the independence of the office and active interference at the most senior levels, to the extent that he and another colleague were forced to become whistleblowers themselves and when they did that, they too were targeted and penalised.

Neither of those two who worked in this office are still in the jobs that they held. As Taoiseach, you need to establish the facts around it. I ask in good faith because I want to know and because we deserve to know-----

The Taoiseach will respond.

-----did anybody in Government know that this was going on?

Did anyone in Government know what was going on?

It is rhetorical.

The specific allegations with respect of those who have made protected disclosures - I cannot interfere in a protected disclosure.

That is not what the Taoiseach is being asked.

It was rhetorical, Deputy.

I cannot interfere.

That is not what he is being asked, but anyway.

The Deputy knows that. The Deputy has asked me to override, just now, the entire whistleblowers Act. That is what she has done.

No, I have not.

What is she asking me, so?

I have asked-----

The Deputy is trying to make it political-----

-----that Donal Corcoran-----

She is trying to land it-----

Deputy.

-----and Rose Sweeney-----

as she always does.

-----resigned

Deputy, please.

The Deputy is interfering again and interrupting me. This is what she always does. I think the first thing we should do-----

Would the Taoiseach answer the question?

With the greatest of respect, if we had a bit more whistleblowing in Sinn Féin a long time ago, we would have all been better off.

But could I just make the point, I think the first thing that has to happen-----

That is a pretty disgraceful comment to make.

No, sorry, it is not actually, but the first thing I want to say is we need to watch the programme this evening. I will watch it in its entirety. That is the first thing. I worked with previous whistleblowers. I worked with Maurice McCabe extensively, but I think it is important. It is also important to get a response from An Garda Síochána. What is An Garda Síochána's response to the programme this evening? That has to happen.

The Taoiseach is tasked with more than watching a TV programme. He is the Taoiseach.

Deputy.