Irish unity and reconciliation
Peadar Tóibín presses the Taoiseach to support clearer planning for Irish unity and ask Andy Burnham about the circumstances for a border poll. The Taoiseach defends a gradual approach centred on reconciliation, North-South investment and institutional cooperation, and says he will discuss legacy and Good Friday Agreement reform with Burnham.
There is a growing number of people who support full Irish independence. Polls show that the majority in this State believe that the people who live on the island of Ireland should make decisions over what happens on the island of Ireland. Brexit has shown that London neither cares nor knows much about the North of Ireland.
Irish independence and Irish self-determination are in touching distance of this generation. The North was purposely designed with an inbuilt two-thirds unionist majority to safeguard British rule but today, according to election results, not one of the Six Counties has a unionist majority.
Unity offers an amazing opportunity. I authored an Oireachtas report for the enterprise committee a number of years ago and I spoke to about 100 people from different backgrounds, including people from businesses, trade unions and civic organisations. Many of them were from different constitutional backgrounds but all of them agreed that if we fund, plan and deliver services together, they will be better services and they will cost less.
An example of this is the healthcare service. Catherine Sherry was married with three children and she lived just north of the Border. She was diagnosed with lymphoma in September 2024 at the age of 42. Treatment was not available to her in the North of Ireland. It was available in Dublin but she was not allowed to access it. Despite the fact that she was extremely weak, she was forced to go to London for treatment for long periods of time away from her family and she died in London, away from her family.
We should have a very simple policy of treating people in the closest hospital they need in this country. It would be of benefit to all people in this country. The Taoiseach should not tell me that we have, at this stage, cross-Border healthcare. It is minute and glacial. It is not as transformative as what unity would bring.
The Taoiseach is becoming increasingly isolated on the issue of Irish unity. He spent the weekend back-pedalling and downplaying the significance of Trump's statement. The Taoiseach is out of kilter with the Dáil-----
Comment on this
-----with his Government partners and also with his own party. Indeed, Fianna Fáil supporters came into our Aontú tent at the ploughing yesterday and stated that they were angry and frustrated with the fact that Micheál Martin is gutting such a core value of Fianna Fáil.
The Taoiseach has given many excuses as to why not to proceed with a unity campaign. At one stage he said that we have to have reconciliation first before it should be considered. What evidence has the Taoiseach got that reconciliation is more likely in a six-county state under British rule? Reconciliation happened far faster in the South than it did in the Six Counties.
At the Taoiseach's next meeting with Andy Burnham, will he raise a key issue: that the mechanism for decision on the referendum for Irish unity will be made clear to the people of the North of Ireland, whom it affects? The Good Friday Agreement was about the North determining its own future. Surely they should know what that mechanism is.
Comment on this
First of all, I am a member of a party and for me and my party, Irish unity is not a slogan or a campaign.
Comment on this
The party he is a former member of did more to divide this country and damage the prospect of Irish unity for over 30 years. Deputy Tóibín endorsed that violent campaign for years.
Comment on this
Unity is about building trust. It is about building understanding with those who do not share our aspiration.
It means grinding out the hard yards of reconciliation. I do not dismiss reconciliation like the Deputy does. It is important that we work at it and do it. It means acknowledging and atoning for wrong done in the past. That has not been done yet. The only people doing that are state actors.
Comment on this
The British and Irish Governments have had the inquiries, but others have not come to the table in terms of atoning and saying what you did was wrong and so on. That has to happen. It means developing our shared understanding-----
Comment on this
You have forgotten the people of the North.
Comment on this
-----of what it means to live on this island and how we share it into the future, and sometimes it means absorbing and ignoring the abuse of those who prefer to use it as a slogan.
I support unity. I am satisfied with the work we are doing to develop the potential for unity on this island. The Government and I have established the most dynamic and consequential North-South investment, development and research programme in the island's history. We have secured a budget of €2 billion. As of today, we have allocated more than €1 billion of our shared island fund to projects that actually change things, that bring people together and that give us a greater insight into the reality of life on our island than at any time since partition.
The Good Friday Agreement was not just about self-determination for one political tradition. There were three sets of relationships to the Good Friday Agreement: British-Irish, North-South and the two traditions within the North. The British and Irish Governments anchored that peace process. I was in government when we signed off on the Good Friday Agreement.
Comment on this
The British and Irish Governments working in lockstep was critical. Northern Ireland was never embroiled in the politics of the union, in terms of Wales or Scotland or anything else like that, because we always asserted the exceptionalism of Northern Ireland because of partition. We always did that. If we embroil it in the union, strategically what will happen is the Westminster Government will look at everything in Northern Ireland through the prism of the union, through the prism of Scotland and Wales. What happened over the last two days is a strategic error. It is a real strategic error all for the sake of a photocall and a press opportunity.
Comment on this
You are rattling in your boots. You cannot lead.
Comment on this
You are out of step and soon you will be out of time. Next year you will be gone, fortunately.
Comment on this
Go raibh maith agat. The Taoiseach often strategically tries to make this debate one between him and Sinn Féin. I think he tries to do that to narrow the appeal of the issue. However, all the parties on this side of the Chamber support Irish unity.
Comment on this
Here is the key issue. At the heart of the Good Friday Agreement is the idea the people of the North of Ireland would determine their future. Right now they have no idea how that can happen. The secretary of state for the North of Ireland recently said that this was an obscure mechanism and that he would not put detail in relation to how that mechanism can be exercised. Why is it that people who have the right to vote are being denied the understanding of what makes that vote likely to happen? Why is it that the Taoiseach will not even ask that question of Andy Burnham? Why is it that he has said he will meet Andy Burnham but he will not raise the issue of the mechanism for a referendum? The best poll in the North of Ireland is the election. Stormont should be the body to decide whether there is a referendum or not. That is the most defining view of the people of the North.
Comment on this
There are two things. The Deputy has limited in his commentary the level of engagement North and South on health. I do not know whether he has been to Altnagelvin and the cancer centre or the cardiac centre. I have met people from-----
Comment on this
The Deputy has just dismissed it. It is a very significant investment by the Republic in the cancer centre in the North and also in cardiac care so that if a person in Donegal needs heart treatment immediately, they can get it in 20 minutes if they live on the Inishowen Peninsula.
Comment on this
Patients are still likely to go to Galway.
Comment on this
Likewise, the Deputy talked about reconciliation. I witnessed the marvel of Comhaltas in Belfast this summer. I went there. I went to east Belfast to witness the loyalist pipe bands participating in the Fleadh Cheoil.
Comment on this
I have asked him twice and he will not answer.
Comment on this
-----as a never-never, as the Deputy seems to be asserting. I will meet Prime Minister Burnham. Legacy will be on the agenda, which would be a real, substantive breakthrough-----
Comment on this
I will also raise reform of the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement and we will discuss the British-Irish situation more generally then.