Aréir, chonaic muid ar an teilifís náisiúnta ceathrar sceithirí de chuid An Garda Síochána. Is daoine iad seo a rinne iarracht imní tromchúiseach a ardú taobh istigh den Garda Síochána. Deir siad gur cuireadh ar leataobh iad, gur cuireadh bac orthu agus gur gearradh pionóis orthu. Tá sé de cheart ag an phobal anois a bheith ar an eolas faoi cé a bhí ar an eolas sa Rialtas faoin dóigh ar caitheadh leis na sceithirí seo agus an gníomh a rinneadh de bharr na himní tromchúisí a chuir siad chun tosaigh.

Last night, four Garda whistleblowers took the extraordinary step of going on national television. They waived their anonymity and told the public their story. These are people who tried to raise serious concerns from inside An Garda Síochána, who have given decades of service and tried to fulfil their duty to challenge wrongdoing. Instead, they say they were sidelined, obstructed and penalised. Anyone watching the programme last night could see they were devastated. It has taken a real toll on all of them and on their lives. Two of them worked in the protected disclosures office itself, the very system established after the Maurice McCabe scandal to protect people who speak out. Last night, they described a system in crisis. We heard about a shotgun that disappeared from Garda custody and 13 years later turning up in the hands of criminals. We heard much more. We heard about the confidential protected disclosure file concerning that weapon that was marked for closure without the knowledge or consent of the person responsible for managing the case. This morning, on Newstalk, deputy commissioner Paul Cleary acknowledged that former Commissioner Drew Harris had intervened in the protected disclosure process. What whistleblowers were telling the public last night as interference has now directly been acknowledged, in respect of the Commissioner's involvement, by one of the most senior officers in An Garda Síochána. That is a shocking development.

One issue brings the human consequences of all of this into particular stark focus, the Garda holsters which were dangerously defective. Just six days before Detective Garda Colm Horkan was murdered, another garda suffered life-changing injuries when his firearm discharged while it was in one of these holsters. Detective Garda Colm Horkan was murdered after his own firearm was taken from his holster and used to kill him. It has been suggested that this was only possible because the holster was defective. The holsters were supplied not by a specialist firearms manufacturer but by a maker of saddles for horses. When the protected disclosure office sought the assistance of retired lieutenant colonel Ray Lane, an experienced weapons expert, Garda management intervened and blocked it. Lane was not appointed and the authority of Rose Sweeney, who had discretion to make that decision, was badly undermined.

Many of these matters are not secret. They have been raised internally, discussed in this House and reported prominently in national newspapers over the years. The Department when the Minister was Minister for justice knew about this. It was informed in August 2020 about the issues regarding these holsters. A protected disclosure was made directly to her that month shortly after she became Minister for justice. I want to ask her directly because she avoided answering some of these questions in the years that have gone past. When was she first made aware of an issue with the holsters as Minister for justice? Was she briefed about the safety concerns surrounding them? What did she do about the treatment of the whistleblowers raising these concerns? When all of this came across her desk as Minister for justice, what did she do about it? Does she now accept given the statement of the deputy commissioner on Newstalk this morning that the former Garda Commissioner in fact interfered in an independent process surrounding the protected disclosure? What does she say about that?

I would like to use this opportunity, because I was not aware of the details last night, to wish our colleague, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, well. Any attack on an elected representative is an attack on our democracy. It is something we all need to condemn and push back on. I wish him and his family well.

Like a lot of people here, I also watched the documentary last night. It covered a wide range of very serious matters over the past several years. Many of them, as was referred to in the programme, related to protected disclosures and investigations, which are still ongoing, related to matters before the courts, both criminal and civil, and before the WRC and related to and subject to investigations by Fiosrú, the office of the police ombudsman. The Deputy knows for that reason I cannot comment. The reason I cannot comment on any of these matters is that we, as a House in 2014, passed legislation brought to the House by Brendan Howlin, which made it very clear that the legislation would prevent any of us, under law, from commenting on or confirming the existence of or details of any specific protected disclosure. Importantly, the legislation-----

On a point of order, the Minister is aware that these protected disclosures are closed so that does not prevent her from answering any questions, just to be helpful. They waived their anonymity.

Deputy, allow the Minister to respond.

To be very clear - the legislation is very clear - while individuals may choose to talk about it, that does not allow us, legally, to talk about it. That is clearly set out in the legislation. Individuals chose to speak about it last night but that does not enable any other person to speak about it. I want to be very clear about that. The legislation was agreed by this House in 2014 and enhanced in 2022. What is really important about the legislation is that it was put in place to allow whistleblowers to come forward and to make sure there was an independent process that took these matters away from politicians, from myself and from anybody in this House, and rightly so. It was decided this would be the approach because of what happened in the past. That is why this legislation was enacted. I fully support it because we have seen over the years many people who have come forward and highlighted issues in the workplace. We should all welcome this. We should protect whistleblowers, make sure people feel they can come forward and when they do that there is an independent process. We also have to respect that process and make sure anybody who is the subject of a protected disclosure is afforded the protection of that independent process as well.

The Deputy mentioned my time as Minister for justice. The very first thing I did, the very first time I got into my car to go anywhere as Minister for justice, was to go to Castlerea to meet the colleagues of Detective Horkan, who were understandably devastated, and to meet his family whom I know are still going through an unbelievable trauma they will probably never be able to fully comprehend. I made it very clear at the time that my job as Minister was to make sure that gardaí, in doing their jobs, were protected, had what they needed, that the legislation was in place for them and that we provided the resources for them to make sure they were kept safe. I also introduced changes to make sure the oversight within An Garda Síochána was as strong as it could be.

Coupled with that, in 2020, the Garda anti-corruption unit was established in An Garda Síochána. This was to make sure any wrongdoing within An Garda Síochána was dealt with. Through the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act 2024, I strengthened the role of the board and the An Garda Síochána audit committee, which now have statutory roles in overseeing the appropriateness, efficiency and effectiveness of procedures in An Garda Síochána dealing with protected disclosures.

I also produced the legislation that established Fiosrú and the whole reason for that was to make sure that where complaints were made by gardaí about issues in An Garda Síochána, they would be dealt with more quickly. The process was too slow. There were too many elements to it. It was taking too long and not producing effective results-----

Thank you, Minister

-----so I made sure legislation was put in place to speed up the process. We all want to make sure there is a system in place that protects whistleblowers but we also need to make sure we adhere to the legislation.

Finally, I will come back to the last point. There is an opportunity for this legislation to be reviewed. That will come up soon-----

I call Deputy Doherty.

-----and all stakeholders need to be included in it.