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Dáil
‹ Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Triple lock and Irish neutrality

Summary

Mary Lou McDonald argues that changing the triple lock would undermine Irish neutrality and demands a referendum; the Taoiseach says Ireland must retain the ability to participate in peacekeeping, including in Lebanon, and rejects the claim that neutrality is being abandoned. The exchange becomes heated, with both sides trading accusations about their parties’ histories and positions on international conflicts.

Tá Fianna Fáil agus Fine Gael ag brú ar aghaidh lena bplean náireach fáil réidh leis an nglas triarach agus deireadh a chur le neodracht na hÉireann. Má tá an Taoiseach muiníneach go dtacaíonn muintir na tíre lena phlean, ba chóir dó é a chur faoi bhráid an phobail i reifreann.

In 2013 here in the Dáil the Taoiseach said the triple lock, which is the requirement to have a mandate from the UN, the Government and the Dáil for the deployment of Irish troops, was the core of our neutrality. Why is he now pushing ahead with his plan to dismantle Irish neutrality? Tomorrow he wants to force through his Bill to abolish the triple lock and he wants to shut down debate here. He wants to force the Bill through because he does not want proper scrutiny of this legislation and the consequences of a Bill which, if passed, will fundamentally move Irish foreign policy away from neutrality and towards military entanglement, and away from peacekeeping and towards military adventurism.

We know what is at stake here. Scrapping the triple lock opens the door for Ireland to be dragged deeper into EU military structures aligned with NATO strategy. The triple lock is core to our neutrality. It is a strength that has allowed Ireland to be a credible voice for peace and diplomacy for generations, to use our experience of colonisation and oppression to always speak up for justice and to champion a better world in a way that is unequivocally, unapologetically and powerfully Irish.

Neutrality is not only a policy; it is deeply connected with the values of the Irish people and who we are. This is why special neutrality protections were given for the Nice and Lisbon treaties. It is why we have the triple lock protection. Now the Taoiseach wants to walk away from these commitments and protections. Piece by piece, with no mandate and without honesty, the Government is dismantling neutrality. The Taoiseach claims he does this because the world has changed and it is now more dangerous and volatile but these are precisely the reasons that defending Ireland's neutrality matters more than ever.

Adherence to international law and the requirement of a UN mandate for the deployment of Irish troops are the safeguards against military adventurism.  Dysfunction at the UN must be dealt with by reform and by strengthening the United Nations, but it should not be used as a pretext for scrapping our neutrality.  The Irish people want no part of the military might-is-right agenda where international law is repeatedly shredded, with catastrophic consequences, and where the European Union now pours hundreds of billions of euro into an arms race.  Our neutrality keeps Ireland outside this dangerous military race to the bottom.  It allows us to speak for freedom, human rights and justice, and to uphold the vision and possibility of a better, safer world.

The Government's attempt to abolish the triple lock is an enormous step. It is literally inconceivable that any Taoiseach or Government would push ahead with this without first seeking the permission of the Irish people, because Irish neutrality belongs to the people, not to any Government. If the Government is intent on abolishing the triple lock, it must have the permission of the Irish people. It must put this question to a referendum and let the people have their say.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta in aon chor. Nuair a fheiceann tú siar ar stair na hÉireann, go háirithe nuair a bhuamar ár neamhspleáchas, is léir gurb é an téama is mó a thagann amach ná cé chomh dílis is atáimid sa tír seo maidir le cúrsaí síochána, coimhlintí ar fud an domhain a réiteach agus a bheith páirteach i misin síochána ar fud an domhain. Is é sin an téama is mó atá le feiceáil, go háirithe in an-chuid tíortha san Afraic, sa Liobáin agus in a lán áiteanna eile. Níl an méid atá á rá ag an Teachta fíor in aon chor. Ní bheidh aon athrú air. Níl ár dtír ag lorg aon choimhlint. Nílimid ag lorg aon chogadh.

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Fág é mar atá sé, mar sin.

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Tá sé áiféiseach ar fad é sin a chur san áireamh. Is é sin atá á dhéanamh ag an Teachta McDonald agus ag daoine eile. Fundamentally, peacekeeping has been one of the great manifestations of Ireland's outreach to the global world. It is not the only one, but by any yardstick it is one of our most significant commitments to the rule of law and to many marginalised people in conflict and humanitarian crises all over the world. The idea that we are about to abandon that is outrageously hyperbolic.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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There is no balance to what Deputy McDonald is saying. She uses language such as "military adventurism" and "military entanglement".

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We are just repeating your language back to you.

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Answer the question.

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Who is going to engage in military adventurism? Does Deputy McDonald think Dáil Éireann is? Does she think an Irish Government is?

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I do not take lectures from the Deputy on the conduct of foreign policy.

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He is good at giving them.

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I have been Minister for foreign affairs on two occasions. I invite the Deputy to go back over my record and my engagement from 2007 onwards.

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Frank Aiken, a member of the Fianna Fáil Party-----

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A south Armagh man.

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-----was an architect of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and was an extraordinary Minister for External Affairs. Fianna Fáil does not take lectures from Sinn Féin, and neither does Fine Gael nor any other member of the Government, a party that once supported Nazism during the Second World War.

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Ah, go away out of that.

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That is an outrageous slur.

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What did De Valera do after Hitler passed away? He sent condolences on the death of Hitler.

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But you did.

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The Fianna Fáil party leader-----

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You cannot take it.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Taoiseach, I am sorry. Please, Deputies.

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When Éamon de Valera-----

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These are facts.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Please allow the Taoiseach to respond. I call the Taoiseach, please.

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I am sorry, but I am not going to be shouted down.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Nobody is going to be shouted down.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Deputy's leader got her time. Now, allow the Taoiseach to respond.

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The Taoiseach-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

End of. Allow the Taoiseach to respond.

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The Taoiseach-----

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The Taoiseach does not even know the history of his own party.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Ó Broin, please. Your leader will respond to the Taoiseach. It is Leaders' Questions.

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She absolutely will.

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When Éamon de Valera affirmed the policy of Irish neutrality during the Second World War, Sinn Féin leaders colluded with the Hitler regime-----

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Not true. It is not factually true.

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-----and Seán Russell was the key person.

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It is simply not true. It is utter-----

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The Sinn Féin party leader, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald, unveiled a statue to Seán Russell. How dare the Deputy lecture me about Irish neutrality?

He has not an inch of credibility in respect of it-----

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Talk about revisionism.

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-----nor has the Deputy's entire party, because, for a long time-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Please co-operate with the Chair.

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Talk about revisionism. The Taoiseach does not even know the history of his own party.

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For a long time, Sinn Féin saw-----

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What a disgrace.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Through the Chair, please.

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-----any conflict Britain was involved in as Ireland's opportunity, right beyond World War Two. Therefore, it could not have given a continental about Irish neutrality for many, many decades. Furthermore, I would say this: I was in the House when Russia-----

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Answer the question. What has changed about the triple lock? The Taoiseach should answer the question.

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Russia has changed fundamentally.

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Avoiding the question, as always.

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Russia has changed. Again, the Deputy does not want to hear it.

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Avoiding the question, as always.

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Fundamentally, what his party is now saying is that Russia, which, on a daily basis, is bombing the civilians of Ukraine, should have a veto-----

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-----on Irish participation in peacekeeping.

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Absolute nonsense.

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Oh, God, the Taoiseach is so defensive.

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Answer the question.

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We also know that the Lebanon UNIFIL mission-----

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Ask the people.

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-----is about to end, with no prospect of our participation in it-----

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald. I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up.

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-----because of the US decision not to support the continuation of peacekeeping in Lebanon.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I thank the Taoiseach. Deputy McDonald is on her feet.

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And a referendum?

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We should be in control of our own destiny when it comes to participation in peacekeeping missions.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy McDonald is on her feet. I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up.

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The people should be in control.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I call Deputy McDonald.

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Is fíor go bhfuil siad ag iarraidh ár neodracht a scriosadh. Sin an rud atá á gceist againn inniu. The idea of abandoning our neutrality is absolutely outrageous. The Taoiseach is quite correct. The triple lock remains at the core of our neutral position. The Taoiseach was quite correct to state that in 2013 but what we are now seeing is a very dangerous political sleight of hand. The Government is attempting to force through, by means of a guillotine, legislation that will have the most profound consequences for the positioning of this country for generations to come. Frank Aiken was an outstanding man, an outstanding Irish patriot, an outstanding south Armagh man-----

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And a member of Fianna Fáil.

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-----and fair play to him. He carried the torch for what was right for this country. For many decades, the Taoiseach's party did defend neutrality but it has moved away from that.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

The Taoiseach should respond now.

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I am simply advancing to the Taoiseach the idea that a matter of this importance must be put to a referendum, and the Irish people, not the Taoiseach, must make this call.

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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The Irish people want us to continue to participate in peacekeeping. The bottom line is that the amended legislation-----

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The Lisbon and Nice treaties. That is the message-----

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I am sorry but I did not interrupt. Why can the Deputies not allow people opposite to speak?

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Deputies

Hear, hear.

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That is the essence of parliamentary democracy.

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Stop calling them Nazis here-----

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The Nice treaty-----

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The point I was making is this: if this legislation does not go through, we will not be in a position, for example, if we wanted to have some participation in Lebanon, to be a voice, to be there as a witness to what is transpiring.

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That is a red herring.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Allow the Taoiseach to continue.

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In other areas as well, we would simply not be able to do so. Why? It is because the party opposite and others would prefer Russia to have that decision-----

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Nonsense. We want the people to decide.

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-----or the US, or indeed China. The world has changed dramatically.

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Fianna Fáil has changed. That is for sure.

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I know Sinn Féin does not want us to support Ukraine. It did not want us to allocate €90 billion for Ukraine to defend itself. That is where it is.

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Bring that debate to the people and I will have it with the Taoiseach in the full public gaze.

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It was the same when the Russians invaded Crimea. I, for one, and I think the vast majority of people, want us to be involved in peacekeeping. Our military forces want to be involved in peacekeeping.

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Then put it to the people.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

I call Deputy O'Callaghan.

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What Sinn Féin is endeavouring to do-----

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The Taoiseach is scared of democracy.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan is on his feet.

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He is scared of the view of the people. Shame on him.

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Verona Murphy An Ceann Comhairle Independent

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan, please.

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