I welcome you all to the public portion of our meeting. I will read some formal notices relating to privilege and the use of privilege. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place in which Parliament has chosen to sit, namely Leinster House, in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting.

Our next item of business is our engagement in relation to petition No. P00062/25 on mandatory mental health breaks in schools with Mr. Jonathan Howe. Before we start, I will explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses with regard to references that may be made to other persons in the witnesses' evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. Witnesses are again reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable, or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Before we hear from our witness, I propose that we publish his opening statement on our website. Is that agreed? Agreed. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Mr. Jonathan Howe as well as Mr. and Mrs. Howe, who are watching from the Gallery. Mr. Howe has ten minutes to read your statement. We will then have questions and comments from committee members. I want to alert them that I have to leave for about ten minutes at about 12.20 p.m. The Vice Chair of the committee will take over chairing the session. I call Mr. Howe to deliver his evidence, le do thoil.

Thank you, a Chathaoirligh. I thank the committee for the invitation to appear before it. I am here because Irish education is operating on an outdated system of endurance which is failing the mental health of 370,000 post-primary students.

In February 2026, an ESRI publication confirmed school-related stress is the single greatest factor impacting youth well-being. Ireland ranks 44th out of 45 countries measuring high life satisfaction among young people, with only 51% of 15- to 17-year-olds reporting high life satisfaction. In a UNICEF report on adolescent mental health, we ranked 24th out of 36. We are seeing record levels of burn-out not because students are weak but because the adolescent brain is not biologically designed to maintain high level cognitive function for more than six hours a day without structured decompression. We are asking students to perform like elite athletes, but we are refusing them the recovery time elite athletes require. The structure of the school day is decided by the school’s board of management and is not mandated by the Department of education. Irish schools can evaluate their own well-being strategies. The only break we get in my school is lunchtime, halfway through the school day. The study encourages the participation and consultation of students in well-being initiatives. The ESRI publication states: "Representative student voice should be central to the design, implementation, monitoring and evaluation of all school wellbeing and mental health supports at both primary and post-primary".

The solution is the 10-03 framework. My petition proposes simple evidence-based legislative change, with the mandatory implementation of a ten-minute, no-tech decompression break for every three hours of lessons. This is not a chat break or a recess. It is a clinical necessity for memory consolidation and cortisol reduction, based on neurobiological research published as recently as November 2025 by Dr. Alexa Mousley and a team of neuroscientists from the University of Cambridge. The study states these windows of rest can increase classroom efficiency by up to 25%. They significantly reduce the crisis points that lead to long-term mental health absenteeism. We are often told that adolescence is a phase we grow out of by 18, but this landmark research has fundamentally corrected this misconception. The study led by Dr. Mousley analysed nearly 4,000 brain scans and identified that during the adolescent era of our brain, rewiring actually persists until our early 30s. This means every student in the Irish secondary system is currently in a state of intense neural reconfiguration. I would like the committee to imagine a 31-year-old man buying a house, paying taxes and maybe even standing in an election. According to the study, that man, biologically speaking, is still a teenager. His brain is still rewiring. His adult mode has not actually switched on yet. If a 31-year old's brain is still in construction, imagine what is happening in the mind of a 14-year-old in a double science lesson. It is a war zone of neurons.

I, along with other students, have felt the constant stress and burn-out that comes with being in school for long periods of time, where the only break other than lunch is walking between classes. Some students deliberately take longer, just so they can have the time to reset their heads. Students should not have to do this because it takes time from learning and can become a really bad habit. They would not have to do this if there were structured breaks during the day, which would alleviate the stress and tiredness. I see this all the time in school, or students just leaving school when they are too stressed or tired. This becomes a health and safety risk. Students who are tired and overly stressed are also more likely to have impulsive behaviours, such as yelling at teachers, fighting or other antisocial behaviours. Not only would these breaks help the students, but the teachers as well. They would not have to waste time on dealing with misbehaving students, breaking up fights and keeping students in line. This makes teaching and learning easier.

For too long, the Irish education system has treated the student brain as a finished product by 18. As the Cambridge study I referenced has definitely proven, we are not adults in waiting. We are in the most intense construction zone phase of human life, a phase that continues until we are 32 years old. If the State believes in the January 2026 ESRI report, which tells us belonging and universal well-being supports are the front line of mental health, then these ten-minute decompression breaks cannot remain a privilege decided by the board of management, but as a right for all students in all schools. I am not asking for ten minutes to switch off, I am asking for ten minutes so our brains can stay switched on. The builders in our heads are currently trying to rewire the penthouse while the Department of education keeps the power tools running 24-7.

It is not scientific and according to the rising burnout rates in our school, it is not working. I ask this committee, not as a petitioner but as a student tired of having his and his fellow students’ mental well-being neglected by the State, for an immediate national pilot. Let us stop treating students like batteries to be drained, and start treating them like the high-performing biological systems that they are.

Thank you, Jonathan. It is unusual for us to have a petitioner before us who is as young as you are. You have done incredibly well. I thank you very much, not just for being here, but also for giving us the chance to have the discussion and for prompting the debate. You have finished your evidence. I will invite members to make their contributions. I call Deputy Buckley.

Good morning, Jonathan. Welcome to the club. I also welcome your mam and dad.

To give a quick briefing, in 2017, I was the mental health spokesperson for Sinn Féin. My background is in mental health. The Chair and I had the honour of sitting on the Sláintecare report, and I sat on the future of mental healthcare report. As committee members, we would sometimes be told that we needed to bring in the experts from the Royal College of X, Y and Z. I used to argue that it is the 14-year-old who is going to school and is in the class environment, who has perhaps lost a buddy to suicide, who is the expert. The other guy would not have the lived experience. The first thing they will do, especially in here, is make excuses for not doing the right thing, instead of listening. What I loved about Jonathan’s statement was that he said it was evidence-based. That stops the first barrier from being put up because his study is evidence-based.

In his closing statement, Jonathan mentioned a national pilot system. They love pilot systems in here. I would suggest a countywide pilot system. School has changed a lot since we were there and the pace of life has changed. Not only are students under pressure, but also the teachers, career guidance teachers and everybody else. Everything seems to be maxed out. Ten minutes does not seem a lot, but when that gap or break is missing, it can be like an eternity.

I am excited sitting here today because, as I said, I love to hear from young people who have gone through it. We are not normally peers. It is society-driven that we are the ones who tell you what to do, when we should be shutting up, so you can tell us what we should be doing for you. I am definitely going to look into this more. I will definitely look at the Cambridge study. Does Jonathan know if it has been done in any other country?

It has just been done at the University of Cambridge in England.

That was a study. Have pilots been done on this?

No.

That is perfect. As I said, anything that can improve mental health and mental well-being, especially in any kind of stress-filled environment, has to be a plus. We have sleep courses here, and we get various other courses. I took the sleep course, which was about three quarters of an hour long. When I finished it, I asked the tutor how we can switch off in our job. I cannot say in committee what he said, but it was a long three quarters of an hour that was no good to me because there was no solution for us. He said that we are never switched off. That is the politest way I can put it.

It has been a pleasure. Jonathan should be very proud of himself. He is here to make a difference. He wants to change things. He is not in here banging a big drum. He is just saying that we have the evidence, the study is already done and he wants to take it forward. What I loved about his statement was that it was not about him; it was about him, all his classmates and the school. It is an amazing gift, and Jonathan should be very proud of that. One of the nicest things to do in the world is to say “Yes, please”, “Thanks”, or “Sorry”. Jonathan has those attributes. As I said, I will look at this. I have a way of contacting Jonathan, so I will definitely follow up with him and come back to him. I know he could be back in here again. Well done.

Jonathan is very welcome. It is fantastic to see young people engage in the political structures. It is important because if they do not, it means that the decisions will all be left up to grumpy old men and women like us. It is important that young people engage in politics and the political process. It is fantastic to see it here. As politicians, we all hear people complaining, but we do not hear them offering solutions. Jonathan offers a solution. He is offering something tangible that can be done. It is something that should be examined because it is really worthwhile.

When my daughters were Jonathan's age and at school, I would collect them after school, and the mood would be flat and heavy. Then they would go training or go out with their friends, and they would come back different children. That resetting and energising is important. I know students are not going to take a break in the school day to play a full game of football, but the option of ten minutes to reset and decompress would be worthwhile.

Pádraig Pearse referred to the Irish education system as the murder machine. Jonathan has highlighted some elements of it that cause a lot of stress for young people. That decompression or resetting time would, as Jonathan said, allow for better attendance. People would be less likely to want to skip school if they are not struggling during the day, so I would imagine it would lead to a better attendance record for young people.

How does it work from a teacher’s perspective? Has Jonathan spoken to teachers? What are their views on it? People will ask about this. Will it lead to disruption in the class? When is the break? Will it be at the start of class, the end of class or during class? How does a teacher manage that? Has Jonathan looked at that?

Not at the moment, but I will get back to the committee on that.

That is great. I imagine that teachers will have a view on it. It is something that should be progressed. We should pursue this and look at it in detail to ensure that it works for everybody. Jonathan has offered something that can work. As I said, given my own kids’ experience, I can see how it could work. I would definitely like to see this. Well done for coming in and engaging in the political process.

I commend Jonathan and thank him for coming in. It is very easy to sit on the sidelines and complain. By putting himself forward and coming forward with strong proposals, he is a credit to himself, his school and his parents, who are sitting behind me. Well done for standing up and being counted, and being a leader among his peers. I want to acknowledge that.

I am the father of four children, so I understand the academic pressures, the social stresses, the screen overload and all the various forms of anxiety that can exist in a school setting. I get the logic of the better focus on learning and the lower stress and anxiety. I want to get Jonathan's view on a couple of concerns from the other side, the school side. I totally understand, and Jonathan articulated brilliantly, the impact it would have on the student. I want to look at the school side of things, for example, the loss of teaching time.

Jonathan mentioned a break of ten minutes every hour. In his vision, how would that work within the school day? Would it still operate within the same timeframe, or would the school day be longer, with more breaks? What is Jonathan's view on that?

It would operate within the same timeframe, but by cutting classes such as SPHE. We already have 40 minutes of well-being hours in the school, but it does not do that much. Certain non-essential classes like that would be cut into to allow more time.

Some schools have different timetable structures.

Some schools' classes are maybe 35 or 40 minutes. Some schools' classes are up to an hour long. What way would Jonathan envisage it working in that regard? I know I am being very technical here, but I am just trying to get my head around a kind of non-one-size-fits-all approach. I do not expect Jonathan to have the answer, but I am just interested in his view.

It should be up to the schools. The schools should have to implement the break, but it should be up to their discretion as to how they implement it.

I am really interested in the implementation of it and I liked Jonathan's comments as well. My worry when I heard of a mental health break originally was that, for the five or ten minutes or whatever it may be, it would be an opportunity for students to get back on their phones and recharge, but I love the way Jonathan said that that was not part of it. It was actually a full reset. I really liked that part.

In terms of the ten-minute break, does that involve movement? Is it outdoor time? Is it mindfulness? Is it quiet reflection? What does that look like?

It looks like ten minutes where you are in your classroom and there is quiet reflection. If you want to, you could talk to someone such as a guidance teacher. It is more of an opportunity to reset your head.

Does Jonathan think this should be for primary and secondary schools or just secondary schools? What is his view, given that he is obviously living it?

I think mainly secondary schools, but it could be a good idea to put it in primary schools as well.

Could the mandatory breaks improve classroom disruption?

Yes, very much so.

That is excellent.

Looking at this from the perspective of teachers, special needs assistants, SNAs, and school management, who will supervise these ten-minute breaks? Would they be done in the classes under the supervision of the teacher who is there?

Yes.

That is the mainstream side of things. If we move over to special education and additional needs in schools, what way would it work in that setting? Does Jonathan have a view on that? I know I am being very technical, but he is a very bright young man and he has come in here and articulated brilliantly. I do not expect him to-----

I see no reason it could not be implemented in special needs schools the same way as in mainstream schools.

I know I am hammering Jonathan with questions, but I am just trying to get my head around things. How would success be measured? If we bring this in and ten-minute breaks come in, how would one know if it was successful?

We have a system in my school whereby every time we misbehave, we get negative points. Schools would see the amount of bad behaviour drop because people were more focused. The amount of people doing their homework and not forgetting it would increase. Schools would see a drop in the number of notes of concern and behaviour notes issued and they would then know there was an improvement.

I can hear the student voice loud and clear in Jonathan's report. In terms of bringing this to the next stage, we would need to hear the parent voice and the school community voice. It would be important to get their views on it as well. The fundamentals of what Jonathan has here are really strong.

This is my last question, and then I will leave Jonathan alone. If this was adopted and put in place around the country and we fast forwarded three years, what would success look like? How would we measure success?

Attendance would skyrocket and we would see fewer students coming in late and getting behaviour notes and notes of concern. We would also see a slight increase in test scores because students would be more focused and more likely to learn.

Thank you, Jonathan.

You can rest assured that if anyone was getting hammered with questions, the Chair would intervene, but we are very lucky that we have a witness in front of us who is more than able to handle the technical questions. I thank Deputy Cleere because he brought a lot of detail out as well, which is very helpful.

Like the Cathaoirleach and the other members, I welcome Jonathan and his parents. As Deputy Cleere said, Jonathan deserves great credit for putting together that presentation. He presented it with great clarity and he outlined very clearly his particular views and the concerns that have given cause to this proposal.

One thing we might do is send Jonathan's submission and the transcript of the day's proceedings to the Department of Education and Youth, particularly to its inspectorate, and ask it to give it some consideration.

That is a very good suggestion.

We might also ask the Department to give us a response, if it has not already given one, to the February 2026 ESRI publication that Jonathan quoted. He did not just put forward his own views, but he also did great research, taking findings from the ESRI as well as from the University of Cambridge's work in this area. As was said earlier, his proposals are very evidence based.

Jonathan mentioned that, by and large, there was a lack of a student representative voice. When we visit schools, we generally meet student councils. I am sure the input each student council has varies from school to school, but to his knowledge - not just with regard to his school, but also other schools where he has friends attending - do the student councils have a good input into dealing with these day-to-day issues as they affect students?

Our student council in my school is mainly just for organising events for charity. We recently had a walk for water. We had to walk our age. In my second year, something like 240 14-year-olds had to walk two miles. The only thing the student council really organises are events like that. It would not have an input into how the school is run or on issues affecting the students. It is more like a figurehead body.

It is presumably much the same throughout the whole country probably. When we meet student councils, they have organised activity in the green flag initiative, on the Irish flag issue or in promoting some particular school events.

We are all well aware of the pressures today in regard to mental health and well-being. Teachers who speak to us about their daily work also refer to the fact that they are conscious of the pressures on their students. Jonathan has done a very good public service, particularly at his age. To come before an Oireachtas committee and outline those proposals with such clarity is a great credit to him and I compliment him on the background work he did in preparing this submission and backing it up with evidence, particularly using publications that are very credible. Any publication from the ESRI is always very credible, as is the work from the University of Cambridge. We should ask the Department for its views on what is a very important issue.

To advise the committee, there is some correspondence from the Department of education, but it has not yet received the transcript of this meeting. We will make sure that it gets it. We will give Jonathan that correspondence before he goes. Deputy Smith encapsulated many of our feelings about the presentation, which is that Jonathan has done a public service. This is incredibly important.

As Cathaoirleach, I am mindful of the fact that the discussion in relation to mental health and well-being within our schools is also happening at the education committee. With the agreement of our committee, I propose that we send Jonathan's petition plus the transcript of this morning's meeting to the Chair of the education committee, given that it is engaged in a similar piece of work.

A very helpful suggestion was also made in relation to us being able to hear from teachers. That would be important because they are part of the school community. We will also get a view from the Department of education.

I have many questions, but I want some points re-emphasised. Jonathan said in his submission that it was a ten-minute no tech break. That is very important. I took the opportunity to discuss this informally with family members, some of whom are in the education community and some of whom are parents. One of the first questions asked was that, if students just went straight onto their phones, how would it be a break? However, Jonathan was very clear on this, so he might speak about the need for it to be a tech-free ten minutes in order to get that really important reset.

The reason it should be tech free is because if it was not, teens would just go on their phones scrolling TikTok, Snapchat, etc. They are not really improving their mental health because they are just seeing toxic stuff online, which would make it slightly weird.

If there is no tech, they have more time to reset their head and focus more on their well-being. Then, if they want, they can talk to teachers if there are any issues. It can, therefore, be quite beneficial if there is no tech. It would not be instruction based. There would be no homework or worksheets, which we currently have to do in our well-being class.

To be able to isolate out the well-being class time and to have scope to use some of that dispersed through the day is a very good idea. The first thing that was said to me was "They will be off on their phones", but that is not the case. I was really pleased to see that and also to hear Jonathan emphasise that. The education committee has had a fairly extensive discussion on this area. It would very much benefit from having the transcript of this morning's hearing and also from hearing Jonathan's petition. We will forward that to the committee and also send the transcript of the proceedings to the Department of Education and Youth, which is important.

With regard to this not being done anywhere else, sometimes the State wants to be a leader in everything but we also like to be able to point to best practice in other places. This is an opportunity =for us to do something that ground-breaking and innovative. That is probably a good thing.

Yes.

Following this hearing, I will propose that the committee engage with the education committee. That will be important.

Deputy Maxwell has not had a chance to contribute.

My apologies. Members are all on a number of committees and two of the committees I sit on met this morning. I read Jonathan's piece and I echo what Deputies Cleere and Smith said. We are always asking young people for their views and thoughts. Jonathan has brought to the committee today a view that is well thought out and backed up with facts, including the ESRI study from 2026 and Dr. Alexa Mousley's study. I agree with Deputy Smith that this petition should be referred and looked at. What Jonathan is proposing is a break of ten minutes every three hours. He summed it up, saying that we, the adults, are all scrolling on our phones. I fully support sending this petition on to the education committee. If we are asking young people in all spheres of life to tell us what they want and what their views are, and then young people like Jonathan come along with well thought out and well defined reasons something should change, we should look at them and see if we can arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. Well done to you, Jonathan. You are a credit to your parents. Some day you may be sitting in one of these chairs, given what you are doing when you are so young.

I think we can agree on that.

Whoever is in the constituency Jonathan lives in needs to watch out. Well done.

Jonathan might be a bit too good for politics.

Maybe.

Fair play to you, Jonathan. The people in this room are representatives of different political parties which, to be fair to us, sometimes struggle to agree. You have managed to bring us all together. We all agree you make some very valid points but we are equally all agreed that we are blown away and impressed. I say this as someone who has given evidence to a joint Oireachtas committee. It is not easy and can be a bit nerve-wracking. The fact that you have come in here this morning to give us evidence and share with us your perspective and experience is really useful for us.

Deputy Maxwell rightly pointed out that politicians say all the time that we have not heard from young people and if only we had heard their voice. We have now heard the voice of a young person and it is up to us to listen and act. Exactly as I have outlined, I will propose that the committee have those engagements. We will make the education committee aware and we will also correspond with the Department of education. I will also propose to the committee that we hear from other stakeholders, including mental health professionals and teachers, so that we can add to the proposal that has been made and interrogate some of its implications. There will always be people who will say that we cannot do it now for this or that reason. We need to talk to them about any objections they may have or issues they might raise. We can have that engagement with them and then the committee can have a conversation with the Department and the education committee to see how we can work together with them.

As political opponents, we sometimes knock lumps out each other but most of the time, down here in the committee rooms, we get collegiate work done. We set aside our political differences and try to do something decent for people, and a good piece of work.

It is very rare that we have unanimity of purpose breaking out in the committee. I would not like to damage that now by talking further. Therefore, it falls to me, as the Cathaoirleach, to thank you most sincerely, Jonathan, and to also thank your parents for being here with you. I thank you for the evidence you have given. You have given us a lot to work on and think about. We will pick up this work and you can follow our progress online. We will come back to you if we need any further clarification. On behalf of the entire committee, I thank you most sincerely for being here this morning and sharing your insights with us. Go raibh míle maith agat.