I welcome the representatives of the Road Safety Authority, RSA: Ms Alison Coleman, interim chief executive officer; Mr. Michael Rowland, director of research, standards and assurance; Ms Nuala Carey, director of partnerships and external affairs; Ms. Annette Ferguson, assistant principal with responsibility for communications; Mr. Brendan Walsh, chief operations officer; and Ms Miriam Scott, assistant principal in the driver licence division.

Before we begin, I acknowledge those families whose lives have been devastated by road deaths and serious injuries. Every statistic we talk about today represents a family and a community who have been devastated and whose lives have been changed forever. They always remain at the forefront of our minds in the work we do. The committee has made road safety a real priority. We are absolutely and totally committed to ensuring that policies, structures and resources are in place to reduce the number of fatalities and serious injuries and to improve accountability across the road safety system.

We appreciate the witnesses' presence here today. The format of the meeting is such that we will hear the Road Safety Authority's opening statement, followed by a questions and answers session with the members of the committee. I once again ask members to be concise in their questions to allow witnesses the opportunity to reply.

I will read a note on privilege for our witnesses. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity. Therefore, if witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with this direction.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I ask Ms Coleman to make her opening statement on behalf of the Road Safety Authority.

I thank the committee for the opportunity to speak today. We are deeply saddened to acknowledge the tragic loss of life on Ireland’s roads in 2026. I extend my heartfelt condolences to bereaved families and communities across the country. In addition to this, it is important to acknowledge those who have been seriously injured on the roads. At this mid-year point, it is timely to discuss some emerging trends on our roads and some of the key initiatives the RSA is progressing to protect those who use our roads.

As of 30 June 2026, a total of 85 people have been killed and over 600 have been seriously injured on Irish roads. This is eight more deaths than occurred in the same time period in 2025. A total of 34 of these fatalities were drivers and 12 were passengers. Almost half of those who died on our roads this year were vulnerable road users, including 21 pedestrians, nine motorcyclists, seven cyclists and two e-scooter users. It is particularly concerning that ten of these vulnerable road users lost their lives on urban roads with a speed limit of 30 km/h or less. To provide an update, as of this morning, the figure is 93. I will provide a breakdown of that figure for the committee later this afternoon or tomorrow. Three quarters of all those who died on the roads this year were male. Close to a third were aged 25 years or younger. Young drivers continue to be a particularly high risk group. Counties Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Louth have seen the highest number of fatalities this year to date. Four in ten fatalities this year occurred on Saturdays and Sundays. Almost two thirds of these road users were aged 35 or younger. Almost half of all weekend fatalities occurred between the hours of 8 p.m. and 6 a.m. Over the last five years, from 2021 to 2025, there were ten serious injuries for every fatality on Irish roads. Our analysis of hospital data shows even higher numbers, given that injuries may not always be reported to An Garda Síochána.

We are gravely concerned about the high number of traumatic brain injuries among children using e-scooters. Following recent communication from clinicians at Children’s Health Ireland, CHI, we are aware that e-scooters are currently the single biggest cause of traumatic brain injury in children admitted to neurosurgery and rehabilitation services in Temple Street hospital. CHI has stated very clearly that this represents a serious emerging public health concern and warrants a regulatory or legislative response. The RSA will continue to play our role in educating the public on the safe use of these vehicles in collaboration with Children’s Health Ireland.

It is important that increases in Ireland’s road casualty figures are considered in light of our increasing population. The numbers of vehicles and licensed drivers on our roads and vehicle kilometres being travelled have all risen in recent years, all of which increases the likelihood of road traffic collisions occurring. Ireland was ranked fourth lowest for road deaths per million population in 2025 across the 27 EU countries in a recent report by the European Transport Safety Council, ETSC. While this demonstrates that we remain among the better performing countries in Europe for road fatality rates, any death is one too many. Ireland still needs to achieve significant reductions to meet the targets set out for 2030 in the Government's road safety strategy and for 2050 in Vision Zero. To cite the ETSC report:

The collective goal of halving road deaths and serious injuries by 2030, while ambitious, remains both necessary and achievable.

[...]

Meeting the targets will require national governments and the EU to redouble their efforts and their budgets ...

The ETSC’s recommendations to national governments are to adopt the safe system approach in full, to step up traffic enforcement, and to adequately fund road safety. I will now talk about some of the key initiatives the RSA is progressing.

In relation to road safety campaigns, and in response to concerning increases in the number of cyclist and motorcyclist casualties in recent years, we are currently developing new TV-led campaigns focusing on these road user groups. We are also building on the impact of our Crashed Lives series, with a new campaign scheduled to air this December that will continue to highlight the real and lasting consequences of dangerous behaviours on our roads. Alongside these new initiatives, we continue to air national campaigns addressing drink driving, drug driving, seat belt usage, rural speeding, the benefits of 30 km/h speed limits in urban areas, and mobile phone use. In addition, we are currently developing a new driver fatigue campaign to raise awareness of the significant risks associated with driving while tired. This year also marks the launch of our new advocate and ambassador programme. The advocate element will provide a platform for victims and families affected by road traffic collisions to share their lived experiences with the public. This will be complemented by the ambassador element, which will harness the reach and influence of media personalities and public figures to engage key target audiences.

In the area of road safety education, we have made substantial progress. More than 27,000 students have participated in our new transition year programme, Road Safety Matters, which is now being delivered in post-primary schools nationwide. A new junior cycle road safety programme will be launched in September to be followed by an updated primary school programme in October. At a European level, the RSA has also been invited to join the ETSC’s expert working group as part of the Leveraging Education to Advance Road Safety Now!, LEARN!, project, in recognition of our expertise in developing research-led, evidence-based road safety education.

The project brings together European partners to improve the quality of traffic safety and mobility education, through shared knowledge, practical resources and policy recommendations. By participating, the RSA contributes to and benefits from European best practice, ensuring that its education programmes remain innovative, effective and aligned with the latest evidence.

Furthermore, we have also prioritised attendance at a range of major festivals and public events across the country this year. In June, for example, we were at Bord Bia's Bloom Festival. Our flying box interactive breathalysers have been deployed at venues in Malahide Castle and Marlay Park in recent weeks, supporting concertgoers to make informed decisions about alcohol and driving. This engagement will continue at key national events throughout the year and includes Kaleidoscope, the Galway races and Electric Picnic, and it will be at the National Ploughing Championships.

I will now give an operations update in relation to some of our key services. Regarding the driver testing service, the waiting time at the end of June 2026 was 11.8 weeks. In August 2025, the service dropped below the ten-week service level agreement, SLA, which supported the introduction of legislation to address the issues with holders of multiple learner permits, previously discussed at this committee. This change affected in excess of 70,000 people who are now required to take a driving test before being able to apply for another learner permit. Despite the 17% increase in demand for testing, the service is managing the impact and has seen test centres reduce waiting times. In Dún Laoghaire, for example, the waiting time has halved from 24 weeks in May 2025 to 12 weeks in May 2026, and Tallaght where the waiting times went from 37 weeks to 13 weeks.

With regard to the national car test, NCT, the average wait time reduced to 12 days between September and December 2025, as per the required SLA. This increased to 16 days in quarter 1 of 2026. However, this was expected as it is a historically busy time for this particular service. This also represents the lowest quarter 1 waiting time since the inception of the current contractual agreement.

Since 2024, Ireland's Government road safety strategy has been co-ordinated by the Department of Transport and overseen by the road safety leadership group. This strategy is founded on the holistic, international best practice, safe system approach. This approach emphasises the importance of focusing on all elements of the road traffic system to successfully improve road safety. The RSA continues to play a key role in phase 2 of the strategy, including leading on two primary actions of the phase 2 action plan and supporting other agencies on nine primary actions. In addition, the RSA has responsibility for implementing 20 supporting actions.

The RSA welcomes the recent publication of the national safety camera strategy as part of phase 2 of the plan, which has the potential to significantly improve driver behaviour on Irish roads through enhancing enforcement and deterrence. We look forward to engaging with key stakeholders on the camera enforcement oversight group. Similarly, we welcome the changes to legislation in relation to multiple learner permits, which will come into effect on 1 November 2026. These changes will ensure that individuals who have held multiple learner permits for extended periods will move towards obtaining a licence.

In May 2026, we launched a new interactive map which identifies the location of road traffic collisions. This contains data on fatal, serious and minor injury collisions that occurred on public roads in Ireland between 2016 and 2024. The map is an important tool for members of the public, researchers, local authorities and other stakeholders with an interest in road safety and collision data.

In summary, we are deeply concerned about the numbers of people who have died or have been seriously injured on our roads in the year to date. We welcome any questions members may have on road safety initiatives set out in the opening statement and in our detailed written submission. We believe that these, in addition to the actions set out in the phase 2 action plan and a continued focus on an all-of-government approach to road safety, have the potential to significantly reduce road deaths and serious injuries.

Before I conclude, I have a number of requests today. I ask Oireachtas Members to lend their support to fostering a culture of compliance on roads with 30 km speed limits in their communities. I also ask them to lend their support to local authorities in the widespread implementation of 30 km zones in urban areas for the protection of vulnerable road users. I ask Members to appropriately support and expedite any legislative proposals that the Minister for Transport may bring to them and which will assist with road safety.

The RSA is also hosting its annual international conference on 8 October 2026 in Dublin. It is an associated EU Presidency event. The theme of the conference is "Young Drivers and Risk Mitigation". We would welcome Members' attendance at the conference.

There have been reports in recent days regarding e-scooters and the devastating impacts their misuse and being in the wrong hands can have, particularly for children. We are imploring parents not to permit their children to use e-scooters and not to purchase these devices for their children.

This concludes my opening statement. I thank all of my colleagues in the RSA, who work so diligently on delivering our mandate every day. My colleagues and I are now happy to take questions.

Before I go to the first member, I acknowledge the staff working on the ground in the RSA. I know we will talk a lot about reform and governance and we may engage in criticism, but I want to acknowledge the professionalism and dedication of the staff of the RSA.

I welcome the witnesses. I, too, acknowledge all of the team of the RSA whom I met recently. I know many of them as many of them are based in Mayo. As has been said, the remit and responsibilities of the RSA are sometimes misunderstood. It is important that this should be clear for us as members of the committee. The RSA plays an incredibly important role. That needs to be understood and supported. I hope the committee can do that and, as Ms Coleman mentioned, work together with the RSA constructively. We all want to achieve a reduction in road fatalities and serious injuries. The dynamic is changing all the time, with the likes of e-scooters, which are a new phenomenon and the risks they now pose to public health and young people in particular.

I have a couple of direct questions. What is the average NCT waiting time nationally and, specifically, how does Mayo fit into the waiting times currently?

I acknowledge the work of the committee on road safety. I understand all of the meetings, briefings and engagements the committee has had with a number of groups. It is very important for us in the RSA that the focus remains on road safety. I will pass over to Mr. Walsh to answer the Senator's questions on the NCT.

Generally, the NCT is performing well based on the current demand on the service, which is at levels we have never seen before. At the end of June, we delivered a waiting time of 11.4 days. We look at that on a quarterly basis but at the end of June it was 11.4 days.

Specifically on Mayo, if we take Ballina, for example, the waiting time is 15 days. From our point of view, the NCT has come through its highest ever testing period. We tested more vehicles than ever before in the first couple of months of this year. For the rest of the year, we are already seeing a trend that we expect will bring us below 12 days, probably from the end of July, and that will probably drop more as we move into the rest of the year. That view is supported by the fact that the first time I appeared before this committee, almost four years ago, in October 2022, we had 550 testers and we now have 710 operating within the NCT infrastructure. They are working triple shifts. We have shift 1, shift 2 and shift 3, so we are not just opening centres from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. In some cases, the centres are open for up to 20 hours per day.

Perfect. I will cut in there because I am tight on time. I have raised this before here and in the Seanad and Mr. Walsh is probably aware of it. There have been calls locally in Belmullet, which is a very sparsely populated rural area of County Mayo that Mr. Walsh would be aware of. Councillor Gerry Coyle has regularly campaigned for NCT testing facilities. A local businessman, Michael Conroy, has advocated for it as well. I am just trying to understand.

We can take pressure off the likes of Ballina while also providing additional service in Belmullet, which is a unique area. It is a car-dependent rural area and would have higher usage, I would say, anecdotally, than, for example, an urban centre. What can be done? Would it be possible for it to be reconsidered in the context of the provision of an NCT testing centre or a partial testing centre? Are there other approaches that could be taken to help to make the system more user-friendly for people who live in Erris and who have to travel for an hour to get to their closest testing centre?

I met a local business user from Belmullet just before Christmas. We had a conversation about the test centre in Belmullet. The reality is that there are not enough vehicles in that area to support an NCT centre. I will say, however, that we are currently well advanced on what the next generation of the NCT will look like in 2030. We have a significant report that we commissioned from EY. My team and I fed into that report over a period. It runs to 300 pages, and is currently still in draft form. It relates to what we should be doing with the NCT. The NCT model has served this country very well, but it is 30 years old. We need to look at how we do it for the future. We need to look at the fact that the footprint of Ireland has changed. The population has increased. More people are living in rural Ireland and smaller towns and bringing them back to life. We need to be cognisant of that.

One of the things we will be looking at - I am not saying we will do this, but we will certainly consider it - arises from the fact that we are aware that there are jurisdictions across Europe and the world that carry out mobile periodic technical inspection, PTI, tests. You can bring, for example, a 40-foot truck and trailer that has everything in it and you can have it in an area for a week and people can get their vehicles tested. That is a technology we do not have today. It is not under the current contract. We want to look at stuff like that in the future. I do not think that there would be a fundamental commercial benefit for the operator of the NCT, whoever that may be, from building a test centre in Belmullet. If you look a map, Belmullet to Ballina does not look that far, but I recently discovered, when my young lad was in the Gaeltacht out there, that it is a good drive. I experienced that gap at first-hand. It is not unique. Similar gaps exist in Kerry and Cork, and perhaps Donegal. We are cognisant of that. We want to ensure that people have the opportunity to be compliant with their vehicles. We will be looking at new technologies to see how we can do that.

I would welcome that in the context of the area I am talking about. If that is something the RSA is continuing to explore, I and the committee would support it. I would welcome it for Belmullet if the RSA is able to advance it.

I am running out of time. On the collision data map and the fatality map, is there enough interaction with the local authority in terms of reporting the data to roads engineers in municipal districts and county councils so that the data is properly taken on board and responded to through low-cost safety funding?

I ask the witnesses to give a brief response because we are out of time.

There is good interaction. We have had legal challenges around the sharing of that data. Those are being resolved at the moment. We have been sharing data. Every time there is a fatality on our Irish roads, a local engineer will go out and do an assessment of that location to see if any remedial engineering works are required. As has been referenced, we now have the collision map locator so that people can see the data. The local authorities can also see the data.

I thank the witnesses for listening to my concerns about driving test waiting times in Mulhuddart. I thank Mr. Walsh for his email on 3 July in which he stated that the RSA is progressing a potential site in Mulhuddart for a new driving test centre. I thank Mr. Walsh for working with me on that.

In the opening statement, Ms Coleman referred to the growing population when talking about the increase in fatalities on our roads. Was population growth not factored into the targets to halve road deaths when the Vision Zero strategy was agreed?

The Vision Zero strategy and the safe system approach is an international best practice and standard that is applied across a number of different countries in Europe. It was 2020 when we originally started looking at Vision Zero. At the time, population growth might possibly have been a matter that was looked at. The migration figures that have hit us in recent years are unprecedented. That has been evidenced in our service delivery. It is not an excuse, but we have struggled to get on top of those figures in the context of driver testing. We have it factored into all our forecasting, going forward. The premise of the 2030 strategy and of Vision Zero out to 2050 is that it is the standard across that particular approach. As part of the action plan and as part of our development of recommendations and actions in the phase, we would have factored in for specific actions the fact that there was an increasing population. However, for the strategy for halving road deaths by 2030 and the Vision Zero to 2050 strategy, that is the approach that is adopted. That is a Vision Zero strategy. It would not have been nuanced for each population. It would not have been nuanced in any way by us. We adopted that approach and our action plans are where we can look at things such as the demand and the levels of population with respect to any actions or recommendations that might be coming forward.

Is it still achievable?

We would have to say that it is. We are here today to advocate for what is a very achievable strategy. It does involve partnership and collaborative working across a number of Departments and agencies. Where road safety might not be their priority, it is ours. It is our remit and mandate. Our go-to every morning is road safety. It is hard to ask other organisations and partners to put that issue at the top of their lists. That road safety leadership group has been a wonderful forum where we can now see that road safety is being driven at a level by our Minister, who is the chair of that particular committee. Those are the structures and frameworks in place for road safety.

I am not sure that confidence is coming across. I am not sure that the commitment is clear in the strategy that we require to deal with the crisis that is happening on our roads. In her statement, Ms Coleman set out clearly what the RSA was not responsible for. What I got from the statement is that the RSA is not the authority on road safety. That puts us in a place whereby the committee has to ask that if the RSA does not have overall leadership or responsibility for making our roads safer, who does? If everybody is responsible, does that mean that no one is responsible? We, as commit members, are all reflecting on that. I am going to focus on what Ms Coleman has said that the RSA is responsible for, which is the operation of the services.

Yes.

The RSA website shows that on 3 July, the average waiting time for drivers to receive an invitation to apply for a test was 11.7 weeks. A total of 34 centres across the country have a waiting time above the ten-week target, including Raheny, where you will not get an invitation until 11 January 2027. Ms Coleman's statement also stated that there are now 200 testers, with nine more in training. My figures point to there being 190 testers on 30 May. The Minister said on 17 June that there were 194 testers. Those figures does not seem up to date. I know there is pressure from population growth.

Yes.

We need to move past that in relation to the strategies.

I will pass the specifics around the driving test centres to my colleague. I confirm that we have 200 testers on our books and working.

Since when?

Quite recently. The last few have come through training and we are starting training with another four in July and another six in August. A group has just come through training.

And the test centres.

We have introduced a new test centre in Drogheda, which we have discussed extensively at this committee over the years. We have a new test centre in Mitchelstown. We have also put in place relief centres in Dún Laoghaire in order to compensate for the one we could not open in Sandyford due to technicalities relating to a lease.

We are currently looking at other relief centres that we can put in place. Raheny is a specific one. Raheny is an area that I know well. My mum and dad live there. The problem we have in Raheny is that the building works in that area around the site have basically crippled our ability to deliver tests. We have significantly reduced the number of testers who are in there. We are in the process of putting a new centre or facility within a kilometre of that site where people can access the driving test. We hope that will be in the Killester driving test centre that we already have in place. There is no setting up. It is just extending our footprint there. That is an absolute anomaly. It is something we could not legislate for. It was to do with a level of building works we did not think would affect us has badly as they have.

It is worrying though that we are seeing an increase in the waiting times for driving tests. My last question is on multiple learner permits. The RSA stated in the document that it has written to third permit holders, but what about second permit holders because they will have to take a test before they get their third permit?

I want to make clear that we achieve the service level agreement, SLA, on the driving test time. We are working with the Minister on the legislation to bring in multiple learner permits. That brought 70,000 people into the service and the service is actually managing well with that. We will get back to our SLA by the beginning of next year.

The question the Deputy asked me was on-----

On the multiple learner permits. Why has the RSA not written to the second permit holders?

We have written to everybody who has a third permit and we are in the process of looking at who we need to write to next. We are also in the preparation of a radio advertisement to put out in the mainstream media to inform everybody because I believe now it is not just a case of reminding the second learner permit holders. We need to get engaged the third learner permit holders who have not engaged as well.

I call Senator Collins.

Will the RSA write to the second permit holders?

I call Senator Collins.

It is something we are looking at and we are actively considering. If I was to do that today, it would cripple the service. We have to do it in a manageable way. We are looking at doing it centre by centre where we have the capacity.

Is the RSA still bringing in the regulation on 1 November?

Absolutely. That is not changing.

I thank Mr. Walsh.

I welcome the witnesses and thank them for being here to take questions and to discuss. As they will be aware, we have been discussing road safety over the past couple of months at the committee. I have one or two questions. They are on different sides of what the RSA covers.

Waiting times have come down for the NCT. If you are late getting your NCT, for example, it takes you six months to get around to getting the NCT, regardless of the fact you may not be driving the car for any number of reasons, that NCT is backdated to the original testing date. You are driving in and being told that your car was roadworthy for the last six months. It seems mind-boggling that somebody can say that your car was roadworthy for the last six months even though they did not see it and you are only getting another six months before you have to come back in. What I have heard from a lot of people, and they are very frustrated, is that it seems like, regardless of how long it takes you to get in, every 12 months you will pay that money. They feel it is more a money racket than a road safety measure.

It is important that we should never reward non-compliance.

I completely agree.

We should not do that. It is in the legislation that if your NCT is due, it goes back to the date upon which it was due. That is standard practice across Europe. That supports good vehicle maintenance. The test every year only applies to vehicles that are ten years and older.

Older than a certain year.

Yes, they have to get that done every year. A lot of the fleet gets done every second year. As for it being a money racket, I came from the motor industry and, as I shared with this committee previously, before the NCT, the state of vehicles on the roads in this country was absolutely appalling. We do not need any more said.

I know. I was around before the NCT too.

Exactly. It is one of those things I believe has been a huge contributor to road safety in Ireland. I also believe it has been a huge contributor to vehicles today, to the national fleet being ten years old. If the national fleet had been ten years old before the NCT, it would be a very different national fleet. The fleet is now well maintained. It looks good. A ten-year-old car today still has value and it is still safe for the family, etc. I do not see it as a money racket. I see it as a periodic check on the vehicle that I am putting my family into and I want to make sure that vehicle is safe.

Is backdating the disc in the legislation?

Yes.

That is fine. I just need it to go back to them with.

My second question is on driving lessons and driving test. I live in County Limerick. Driving lessons and the driving test are generally done around Newcastle West, which is our closest biggest town. My children do not tend to drive in Newcastle West after they have done their test. We live in the countryside. Before they got their test, they never drove on a back road or on a motorway. As soon as they passed their test, I had to take them out and explain to that there is no white line on these roads, you have to gauge and you have reduce your speed. We are missing something when it comes to lessons and tests in that they are not taking in all aspects of road use and are only taking in towns and villages.

My colleague, Mr. Rowland, will come in on this as well. There are 12 essential driver training, EDT, lessons which you do before you take a test. You are also to do three hours of driving in between each of those EDT with your sponsor. The day you arrive at your test you should have done a minimum of 48 hours of driving with your sponsor, and we believe that is what the sponsor is designed to do. The sponsor is to take you into your environment and educate you. As you are going through your EDT officially, you get those three hours of additional support to focus on the areas from the EDT that you have done. That is important.

Do those three hours need to be logged, as your one-hour lesson is?

It is not legislated that it is there but it is something we advocate for. We are looking at the driving curriculum and how we are providing lessons and what we should be doing within that. We have taken some steps, albeit small at this stage. There are things we want to do. There is a survey, which Mr. Rowland might want to speak about, on learner drivers in Queensland.

We have engaged with Queensland University of Technology on best practice in learning to drive. We have shared that report with the Department of Transport so I cannot get into the specifics as such. What I can say is that it aligns with the European Transport Safety Council in terms of the recommendations it makes. It talks about graduated driver licensing in particular, and that is where you gain credits. What we found and what the research says is that the most dangerous time for a novice driver or new driver is the first two years after they pass their test. That is down to inexperience, risk-taking and, for males, developmental factors. The pre-frontal cortex of the male brain does not fully develop until 25, so males tend to take more risks. It is looking at all of that. There is graduated driver licensing and it is recommended that there be hazard perception testing, training and enhancing the training, and a review of our essential driving training. There are a number of steps in there to improve the journey.

One of the comments we often get is that learner drivers do not get the opportunity to drive on motorways, and that is true. I come from a rural area, I live in a rural area and we are far from a motorway, but if you look at the data, the data shows that the most dangerous roads are-----

The rural roads.

-----the rural roads. The motorways are our simplest roads.

Hence I say that maybe the lessons and the test should incorporate rural roads. Over 80% of accidents happen on rural roads. If that is the area where the most damage is being done, maybe that is the area these young people need to learn how to drive on.

It is something that we will factor into our learning to drive. It is a priority. The Senator should see something on that.

Great. Is the RSA responsible for where speed vans are placed?

No, we are not responsible for that. That is something Mr. Rowland can explain.

The Garda has its own analysts.

They decide.

They decide. That is based on data. It is based on where people have been killed or seriously injured.

Is that based on data the RSA supplies?

We supply data to them but they have their own data as well. They have the primary data.

Okay.

Some of the criticisms I often hear is that the van is not placed where people have been killed. Sometimes it is not the safest place to put the safety camera van. There are health and safety criteria covering where they can place it. The data is to inform the location.

Perfect. I thank Mr. Rowland.

I welcome our guests here this morning. They have a difficult job. Anyone can respect that, especially in these times. It is complicated by the extra cars and drivers on the road, and the extra population that is there. Sometimes that may not be factored in, but there are still accidents and fatalities. I was at a funeral over the weekend, and it is difficult for everyone involved.

I am going to start with driving tests and keep it localised. Have the witnesses got a breakdown on the figures for the driving test and NCT centres in Skibbereen. The witnesses are saying that there is a ten-week waiting time for driving tests and, to be honest, no one is complaining, which is a good sign. I was up to my tonsils before with calls from people looking to go for a test and could not get one.

We are working hard to make sure that does not happen. Mr. Walsh has those figures for the Deputy.

The waiting time for an NCT in Skibbereen is currently 14 days and for a driving test it is ten weeks.

That is the target, and I appreciate that. That is hugely important because it was a nightmare situation before that. I am going to touch briefly on reciprocal driving licences. It is not an issue up for discussion today, but the RSA is in charge of licences, and we want to progress that. A lot of European countries have agreements with the United States. Are we making progress on a similar agreement?

Mr. Walsh will take that question.

We engage continuously at the behest of the Minister. The RSA cannot actively go out and engage with states. It is at the ask of a Minister. We were asked to engage with New Jersey, Massachusetts and New York in relation to the US. We have engaged with them. We have written several letters to them. We have received some correspondence back to support an evaluation but not a complete set of data which would allow us to do that. It is an unusual situation for us. We do not normally go out asking for somebody to do a reciprocal agreement. It is normally another state that does it. Ms Scott will talk about the process.

We contacted those three states in November and December last year, and we are still in communication with them. It took them a while to respond to us. We are in the middle of carrying out a technical evaluation. There is outstanding information that we need from each of the states in order to finish that process.

I appreciate that and will leave it where it is. The witnesses said there is a map for road collisions. There was a huge objection against a blanket lowering of the speed limit on the R586 in west Cork. It is the Bandon, Dunmanway and Bantry road. I attended many of the meetings, and I could understand that while people do not want to advocate for speed, people have to go to work in the morning. It is a very good road. If that map, which I presume it is being done with the local authority, is looked at and the RSA is able to identify where the accidents are and roads like the R586 are not part it, will they still end up with a blanket lowering of the speed limit even though there have, thankfully, been no accidents or fatalities? I respect that it could change tomorrow morning, but in this situation, I have heard of very few bad accidents on this road, but at the same time there was a talk about a blanket ban taking it down from 100 km/h to 80 km/h, which would be a disaster for businesses in our area. I am certainly for not advocating for someone going over 100 km/h, but in this situation, we say that it should be the decision of the local authority and the RSA, of course, because they know where the accidents are happening. Is that the same situation now or will it be the whip from the higher authority down?

Ultimately, it is not us. We provide the data and that is where our responsibility lies. Mr. Rowland has the nuances of what the local authorities' roles are in relation to that.

When Ms Coleman says "it is not us", does she mean that it is the responsibility of the local authority?

Yes, it is. We provide the data or the evidence that supports the decisions the local authorities make.

Local authorities have access to the collision map locator. Local authorities will intermittently request data from us on certain sections of roads, and we provide that data on locations where collisions have occurred. They have the most up-to-date data in relation to the particular roads.

I appreciate that. Another thing is the condition of the roads. In fairness, the witnesses are right. Drink, drugs and all of that is definitely a huge issue and problem, but the condition of the roads is also an issue. I brought it up last week when the NTA and others were before this committee last week. The condition of some of the roads in west Cork is so dangerous that people cannot drive on the correct side of the road. They have to cross the line to get their car from A to B. What say does the RSA have on that? If it is highlighted to the RSA, does it make a recommendation? The local authority says that it does not have the budget. The last person I met outside my house when I got into the car the other day asked me if I knew the condition of the road and what I was doing about the Ballydehob road. They told me they have to drive on the other side of the road because it is so dangerous. The Kilcoe road, the Rosscarbery road and the entire N71, which is the main thoroughfare into west Cork, are in appalling condition. We are told that there is no budget, but then we hear of fatalities and accidents. It is bad now, but everyone is worried about what in the name of God will happen during the winter when the wet weather comes. Another issue is the white lines on the road. I am looking for work to be done on the white lines outside Drimoleague where people are telling me that drivers are going from a side road onto a main road without understanding it, if they are not used to it. I have been asking for that for 12 months and it has not happened yet. All I am getting back, as are a number of councillors in the local authorities, is that it is about the budget. Where there is a road in such a serious condition, can the RSA make a recommendation? I would love it if a group from the RSA came down and I would show it them. They would then know that I am not misleading them or looking for something that should not be done. The road outside Ballydehob, the road to Kilcoe and the N71, the main thoroughfare into west Cork, is so bad that people cannot drive on the correct side of the road and it is going to get worse. How can we advocate for this and that, including the hugely important things the witnesses have spoken about today, when people still cannot drive on the right side of the road because of the condition of it and their cars are being wrecked because of it? What can the RSA do?

First, I have to say that it is not our job. We are not the competent authority. We do not have road safety engineering expertise. What we have is the data which we share with the local authorities. We got lots of queries from the public and from people complaining. We engage with the local authorities and often write on behalf of the complainant to the local authority identifying the location that the people are concerned about.

We share our data with the Department of Transport's support office but that is data on where there have been collisions and where people have been seriously injured or killed. The Department uses that data to look at remedial measures on the roads in those areas where those collisions occurred.

I have a number of matters to go through so I will move quickly. When Mr. Walsh was here last, we discussed NCT and driving test centres for north Fingal. Regarding the NCT in particular, Mr. Walsh says that the wait time is only 16 days, but I went online to do my mother's NCT in the past few months and I was given dates in October for the testing centres in North Point and Drogheda. I had to go on the priority list. The reality is people are not being offered dates within 16 days unless they go onto the priority list.

North Fingal has a population of about 125,000 people. It is essential that we have another NCT centre. Is this something that the RSA is considering?

The NCT waiting time at the end of June was 14.4 weeks. In relation to-----

I am sorry that just does not tally with my personal experience when I tried to get an appointment.

I know, but I am just correcting the Deputy based on the information I have. In relation to Fingal, we are looking at another centre very close to our current locations. It is something that we have been doing for quite a long time. A site has been identified by the supplier of the NCT to us, and we are currently in conversations with it about that, but it will take time.

I have also been working with Councillor Tom O'Leary and Fingal County Council. We have identified site in Turvey near Donabate. That is another site that the RSA could explore, and I am very happy to put the RSA-----

Please provide me with the details, because-----

Yes, I will follow up with Mr. Walsh after the meeting.

-----to be honest, one of the challenges we have had is planning.

Yes, and this is a site that had a similar planning permission on it, so it could be a suitable site. I will follow up with Mr. Walsh on that.

Please.

In terms of telematic insurance, which we discussed previously, it aligns with action 15 of the road safety strategy, what stage are we at with the roll-out of telematic insurance policies to support learner and novice drivers? I am, in particular, cognisant of the high fatality rates in the younger age category.

By telematic, is the Deputy referring to where there is a black box in the car?

Yes.

That is open to each insurance company. There are several members of my young rugby team who have these black boxes fitted in their cars. It is a wonderful idea.

Are we doing enough on awareness? Should we be trying to promote that a bit more in order that people are aware of it?

Only certain insurance companies carry it out. Mr Rowland might want to speak on this.

I know of some insurance companies that do promote it. We referred earlier to best practice in learning to drive. One of the recommendations the European Transport Safety Council is making better use of technology, in particular black box technology. It is an area I think will inform part of the recommendations going to the Government.

In terms of the collision map, why is it only at 2024? What informs the map? Are changes being made to these black spot accidents?

In relation to black spots, Transport Infrastructure Ireland carries out high collision locations. It does assessments where there are collisions on our national roads. They share that data with the local authorities and put in remedial measures where those collisions have occurred.

Who is tracking that? I want to make sure changes are being made to the road design of these black spots.

It would be Transport Infrastructure Ireland.

What informs the map? A constituent was recently involved in an accident. The Garda did not particularly want to know about the accident. Apparently it is a black spot accident. There are at least four accidents there every month. The fire brigade is worried about it, but I do not believe that the Garda is necessarily telling anyone because it is not interested in recording the accidents. How are we sure the data is correct?

In terms of fatality, serious injury collisions or material damage collisions, if a person reports it to An Garda Síochána, it has to record that on the PULSE system. That is the mechanism.

I have concerns that this is not just fully working, to be honest. Members of An Garda Síochána will appear before the committee next week and we will talk about that.

In terms of e-scooters, I am concerned about their impact. We are seeing the number of injuries and fatalities, in particular serious injuries, not just to users but to other people who are trying to use road and path infrastructure. I asked the Minister about this. He is considering looking at registration and insurance. What role would the RSA have in that? How quickly does it think we could stand up a registration system for e-scooters?

As we all know, the role of the RSA is around education, evidence and data. Back in 2022, we would have provided the Minister at the time, Eamon Ryan, with a paper on e-scooters and our recommendations therein, some of which have been adopted and some of which may now be considered by the Minister. We will support the Minister in whatever way he requires us in order to be able to deliver on it. From a registration perspective-----

Does Ms Coleman see the need for registration and insurance?

I assume it would be similar to motorbikes.

I heard the Minister on the radio last night talking about some of the recommendations. One of the biggest recommendations I would like to see would be the mandatory use of helmets. We have heard about the traumatic brain injury. We have heard about Children's Health Ireland reporting traumatic brain injury. That is a concern. Regardless, these children should not be on e-scooters. We surveyed parents, and of the parents who bought an e-scooter for their child, 67% of them are aware they were prohibited for the use of those under 16 on public roads. An education piece needs to be done with parents.

I know this probably is not squarely within the RSA's remit but it is something I want to raise. A motorcycle user has raised this issue with me. He has noticed that registration plates of motorbikes are being obscured and angled to make sure that cameras cannot properly detect the licence plate. Does the RSA have any proposals in relation to this? Has it noticed this issue? How can we make sure this is addressed? Motorcycle injuries are fairly substantial too.

The matter of registration and the size of registration plates do not necessarily fit with the RSA. It is something that we have heard is happening anecdotally, as well as with cars and lights on cars to dim.

The actual registration plate itself can be manipulated and that is illegal. We do not have the enforcement capability to deal with that. Unfortunately, it is not something we can actively engage with. We are aware of it, but if somebody is going to break the law, they are going to break the law.

I have written to the Minister on this. Has the RSA? It is important because we need to make sure something is being done about it because it seems to be quite deliberate.

We have not, but we are happy to have a conversation about it.

The Road Safety Strategy 2021-2030 commits to reducing road deaths by 50%. The benchmark was either the 2020 or 2021 figure of 144 fatalities on Irish roads. Last year, 190 lives were lost. So far this year, the latest figure is 93, so we clearly have an incredible crisis on our roads at the moment. I do not share the witnesses optimism in terms of that target for 2030 being achievable. This committee has had a series of focused meetings over the last number of months. We have met with many vulnerable road user representative bodies. We have met with many victim impact groups, particularly PARC. We have met with other organisations, the medical bureau, other road users, stakeholders and statutory bodies. We will consider a set of recommendations over the coming months. What we want to do is reverse that alarming trend. What three key recommendations would the RSA recommend that this committee should include in its final report that will reverse this alarming trend? What would the witnesses put forward to this committee that would make a real difference in the short to medium term?

From an organisational perspective, our focus is always road safety. The focus the committee has put on road safety in recent weeks and months with the meetings has focused minds. One of the key things would be that this engagement would continue and be further enhanced as a recommendation-----

I am sorry to cut across Ms Coleman. What I want her to focus on is the area of enforcement, legislative reform, tougher legislation, the use of technology and emergency response. What are her three key recommendations? Ms Coleman is a member and a key actor in the newly established leadership group. Surely these discussions are happening within the leadership group.

They are.

As interim CEO of the Road Safety Authority, what three key recommendations does she have to reverse this alarming trend?

I raise the full implementation of the camera strategy. That is an active topic. The road safety leadership group is meeting today. I recommend the full roll-out of the camera strategy and full support with respect to the NTA, TII and An Garda Síochána in their roll-out of that initiative. Deterrence theory is another area. Mr. Rowland can speak to that a bit more.

We commissioned a study in relation to enforcement. Deterrence theory is the lens one looks through with enforcement. It talks about high-visibility enforcement and people seeing it. Certainty of detection is the first principle. The premise is that if people see police out there enforcing the law, they will change their behaviour.

Does Mr. Rowland agree that this is perhaps the number one issue we need to strengthen? Is driver behaviour the number one reason for road fatalities? I welcome the new camera strategy, but a camera will not capture a drunk or drug driver. I am reminded of the evidence of Alcohol Action Ireland that we need to strengthen our roads policing unit. Does he have a view on how much we should strengthen our roads policing unit by? Does he know the current numbers within our roads policing unit?

In answer to the Cathaoirleach's last question, there are 641 roads policing members. A number of years ago, it was over a thousand. I share the Cathaoirleach's concern.

Has Mr. Rowland fed that concern into the leadership group?

We have.

What is the leadership group saying? Is the leadership group engaging with the Minister for justice, who is a member of the leadership group?

He is a member of that group.

Is there a plan to increase our roads policing unit this year?

I know An Garda Síochána will appear before the committee next week, but commitments have been given that it is going to increase the roads policing. From my perspective, I would ask the committee to support An Garda in terms of getting those resources.

Is that the number one recommendation that this committee should consider, roads policing?

I think so.

We work off the education and enforcement model. We talked earlier about what our responsibilities for education are, but what we have to do is win the moral argument and educate people that engaging in certain behaviour, whether it is speeding-----

Does the RSA have a view on alcohol ignition interlock systems and their use?

We do. In that regard, I was going to mention some of the other recommendations. We chaired a group that examined alcohol interlocks. We worked with Professor Des O'Neill. The report is with the Department of Transport. We have a view on and strongly recommend the utilisation of alcohol interlocks.

We have also produced a report on speed awareness courses, particularly for low-level speeding. We are seeing high levels of speeding in urban areas, where our most vulnerable road users are.

My time is running out. Can I ask about the key areas of legislative reform?

Regarding legislative reform, what I would say-----

Legislative reform and consolidation but, in particular, tougher legislation where it is required.

One example I would give is graduated speeding penalties. Again, the Department is examining that. We have had some interaction with it on the matter. If I am caught speeding in the morning and I am travelling 100 km/h over the speed limit-----

Does the RSA support calls to increase the maximum sentence for dangerous driving from ten to 14 years?

I would support what the-----

Does the RSA have a view on tougher sentences for dangerous driving causing a fatality?

What the research says is that the sanction needs to be commensurate-----

I am just asking whether the RSA supports a recommendation for increasing maximum sentences.

We support enforcement that changes behaviour and deters people from engaging in those behaviours.

Does Mr. Rowland accept that, where a dangerous driver is convicted of a serious motoring offence that includes a disqualification and a period in prison, both can be served concurrently? Does he believe that should change?

Does the Chair mean that, once the person leaves prison-----

The disqualification would commence.

Yes.

My final question concerns the whole area of governance and the Indecon report. I am aware that the witnesses may not be in a position to discuss reform, although perhaps they can. Do they agree that the whole system is designed so that nobody is accountable and that we need to consider an alternative model of accountability, including the idea of a road safety commissioner?

With respect to the road safety leadership group I mentioned earlier, the Minister recently appeared before this committee and said that he was personally responsible, or was the person being held accountable, for it. He chairs that committee, which is made up of the main players in road safety and is accountable for the delivery of the agreed actions. That is the framework within which we operate. It is not our position to recommend whether a road safety commissioner is or is not the correct approach. That may be something that comes out of the committee's report in September. What I would say is that-----

Is it Ms Coleman's view that the Minister is accountable?

There are a number of players that have a responsibility-----

I understand that there are a number of players and key actors, including the Road Safety Authority, but is it Ms Coleman's view that, ultimately, the Minister is responsible and accountable?

At his most recent committee meeting, the Minister accepted that, as chair of the group, he was taking responsibility for that.

Is it Ms Coleman's evidence that she does not accept that the system is designed so that nobody is accountable?

The RSA is happy to be accountable for what it has responsibility for; however, this being an area involving so many agencies and other State bodies, it is very difficult for us to force other agencies to do what we need at a particular time. The collaborative approach has to work.

I thank the witnesses.

I thank the witnesses for attending and for their opening statements.

There have been increases in road deaths in four of the past five years. We have heard from a number of organisations, including Alcohol Action Ireland, which showed us that the number of motorists being stopped has decreased by approximately 75% over the past 15 years. Consequently, fewer people are being prosecuted and there is less of a deterrent for motorists. The latest statistics, in particular, show how many fatal and serious injury collisions take place at weekends. We heard from a group of academics involved in design who said that many educational campaigns do not make a significant difference to the number of fatalities. Approximately €18 million has been spent on advertising campaigns in recent years. The academics' view was that such campaigns are not as effective as having more road traffic gardaí on the ground, randomly stopping people late at night and at weekends.

Anecdotally, people tell me that when they are driving at weekends, they do not see the same Garda presence at the side of the road as they used to. Does the RSA believe there should be more presence?

Better enforcement will lead to better safety outcomes.

Are we approaching this in the wrong way by concentrating on, or spending a lot of money on, advertising campaigns and not having enough gardaí on the roads? Are there enough gardaí at the side of the road stopping people?

It is well known that there has been a 40% reduction in gardaí in roads policing. We need to support An Garda Síochána in getting roads policing and enforcement back to where they should be.

What does Mr. Rowland mean by supporting it?

Political support in relation to prioritising roads policing and holding the powers that be to account to ensure roads policing is adequately resourced.

By "the powers that be", does Mr. Rowland mean the Minister, who has ultimate responsibility?

It is not for me to say, but I think-----

The Minister for justice is one of the powers that be. We accept that. Under the watch of this and previous Ministers, the number of gardaí has decreased.

It is not my area, but my belief would be that roads policing and the allocation of resources probably reside with the Garda Commissioner.

Is Mr. Rowland saying that the level of resourcing has been inadequate?

What I am saying is that it is well known that roads policing has reduced, and we would like to see that turned around.

There has not been enough roads policing in recent years.

I think it is well known.

The Deputy asked about our education-----

Whose responsibility is it to prioritise having more gardaí at the side of the road?

I think that is a question for the Garda Commissioner.

What I would say, if the Deputy does not mind, is that we work off the education and enforcement model. The Deputy referred to our education and awareness campaigns. They are highly effective, and my colleagues can explain how effective they are.

There are three concepts. The first is to win the moral argument. We tell people what is wrong, and we do that through education. You do not speed, you do not drink and drive, and you wear a seat belt. We shape the climate of public opinion by making the public aware of what they need to do to remain safe on the roads. We also build community support for enforcement. Those are the three elements. When the public sees high-visibility enforcement and gardaí on the roads, they change their behaviour. We have seen that. I started in this job in 2006. At that time, our targets were 60 deaths per million, 21 deaths per month and 252 deaths per year. We have reduced road fatalities by more than half.

The Deputy is correct that, during the past four years, we have seen a 30% increase. That is a concern to us. Nobody is more committed to reducing the number. We welcome the committee's support in this regard. Our role is education but it has to be married with enforcement. People have to realise that if they deviate or engage in dangerous behaviour, there is a likelihood they will be caught.

Some of the advertising campaigns have been quite moving and striking. However, everybody knows that people should not drink and drive or speed on the roads. As Mr. Rowland said, the issue is enforcement.

You marry the two.

In Mr. Rowland's opinion, has there been enough pressure from the Government and Garda leadership to get more gardaí onto the roads?

I cannot speak on behalf of the Government. What I can say is that we have close relationships with An Garda Síochána and have raised issues with it regarding policing numbers and enforcement.

What has it said?

As I said earlier, it has committed to increasing resources and putting more gardaí into roads policing.

By how much has the number increased?

The Deputy would have to ask An Garda Síochána. There has been a significant reduction, as I mentioned.

Is Mr. Rowland saying the Garda is not listening, or not taking the steps to increase the number of gardaí at the side of the road?

I think they have other challenges as well. They are trying to cater for a lot of other needs.

The priorities are elsewhere, you believe, as opposed to the 80 people who have died on the roads so far.

The gardaí we work with are extremely committed to road safety and we have very good relationships with them. If the Deputy were to ask them, I think they would like to see more roads policing. Certainly the Commissioner has given undertakings in the past that he would address the staffing issues that roads policing has.

Does Mr. Rowland think there are too many gardaí on the roads at 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning stopping people, rather than weekend nights in the later hours and early morning?

We have that data that would inform their operations. When and how people are deployed really is not an RSA issue, it is the Garda.

Does Ms Coleman think they are not acting on the data?

The operations of the Garda, how they operate their shifts and who goes on what - really all we can give them is the information. That is what we can do, and that should inform.

But it is not informing - steps are being taken, is that what the witnesses are saying?

It is a matter for the Garda.

It is a matter for them.

I thank everyone for coming in this morning. I will get straight into it if that is all right. I will return to something that has been raised this morning and that I have been raising consistently for seven months, which is the regulation of e-scooters. I am not talking about scramblers but e-scooters specifically. On the floor of the Dáil I raised the need for registration and the insurance requirement. In Singapore, Denmark and Italy these requirements already exist and are rolled out. It seems the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, is coming to that point of view now as well but I will continue lobbying on it. If the capacity was required for the RSA to roll out registration and insurance requirements for e-scooters, what capacity exists in the RSA to do that now? It seems that would be the logical place it would go.

On the registration and the insurance?

Insurance is not so much for the RSA, but in terms of registration.

Registration would probably sit with Revenue, just as other vehicles currently do, and I think that would make more sense. From the RSA's perspective, in respect of vehicle standards, originally when we were consulted on e-scooters we did comparative work across Europe and we came up with recommendations around wheel size, speed and the types of e-scooters. They were all provided. Our position was provided to the Minister of the time a number of years ago. To answer the Deputy's question, I think there are structures around insurance and registration in place already within the Irish system. It is just the legislation that would need to be changed and that has to be the priority for our Minister, and is what he has committed to, even yesterday on the radio.

Great stuff. Returning to enforcement, in terms of the RSA's engagement with senior gardaí who are engaged in policing, a refrain that I hear from gardaí who are on the ground anecdotally is that they do not feel they have sufficient cover or enforcement power, if they see a minor using an e-scooter, to stop that minor or make what they would call a tactical intervention to stop a vehicle from proceeding. Is that the feedback the RSA has also received from its engagement with the Garda, especially in the context of the road safety leadership group?

I believe it is a concern that has been within the media and it has been well advertised with the Garda themselves. That group feels that the current legislation does not give them what they need. As we know, the Garda is going to be in here next week. I am sure the Minister would have to factor that into any legislation he would be proposing to put in front of the House at the right time.

Returning to Mr. Rowland's very striking statistic about 67% of parents who buy an e-scooter for their children not being aware that it is illegal, in terms of the education campaign the RSA has run so far, has it noticed any discernible impact or has the dial shifted as a result of those campaigns?

In terms of our campaigns, we have gone off and told parents. What we are hearing and what the data is telling us, especially from Children's Health Ireland, is that there is still a large number of children out there, and anecdotally I would see children under 16 riding e-scooters, which is against the law. We are seeing the tragic consequences as a result of those behaviours.

Would you say, then, that the education campaigns have not been as effective in driving that change in behaviour? Do we need to do better there?

I think the message needs to get through to the parents and we will continue to do that. It has to be supported by enforcement. That needs to happen. There needs to be consequences if children are using e-scooters, that they are taken off them because it is illegal for someone under 16 to be using one.

I am not trying to trick Mr. Rowland or anything. My view is that education seems to have gone as far as it can on this one and actually enforcement and tougher regulations seem to be the way to go.

I might turn to other topics if that is all right. I am informed by my colleague that SGS, which operates the driver licensing system for the RSA in some of the front-office locations, is embarking on a voluntary redundancy programme. Is that something the witnesses are aware of? Will it have an impact on overall service provision for our driver licensing services around the country?

Mr. Walsh will respond to that.

I recently became aware of that. We not been informed of any RSA staff who are affected by this, who work for SGS. I had our quarterly meeting with them last week in Naas and it was not a topic that was brought up for our discussion. Our centres are still operating with the same number of staff. I have not been told of any planned changes. They are contractually required to deliver that.

Will you double-check on the back of this that there will be no effect on overall provision of services, especially in rural areas?

I will. SGS is a much bigger company than just what it does with us. It has lots of other entities. It does gas measuring and so on, so it could be in that area.

It would be good to get that confirmed. While it is a big company, it could have a knock-on effect for rural or other locations around the country. We have been trying to make progress on the second test centre for the south Dublin area with regard to driver testing. Is there an update on that?

We are actively looking at sites and we have identified some sites. The Deputy will understand my caution about going public with them. We have relief sites that we have opened in Dún Laoghaire, at the Rochestown hotel. That has significantly reduced the waiting time in Dún Laoghaire, which is 13 weeks at the moment. That was the worst offending centre and it has now been significantly brought down. My driver testing team recently brought some sites to me that look promising but I am going to play this one very close to my chest. I think we spoke about it before.

I agree, but I just want to make sure we keep it on the boil.

It is very much on our agenda.

On the waiting times in Tallaght, we know from the data over the last few months that Tallaght has been quite stubborn. What is the outlook or projection for how that is going to do in the next few months?

Tallaght is at 13 weeks, so it is down significantly from where it was. Within Tallaght, we have opened up a relief site in the area to enable us to get those numbers down. Both Tallaght and Dún Laoghaire, which had been really stubborn for us, are now at that 13-week level. Obviously we need to get them down to below ten.

Does Mr. Walsh have any idea when he will get that below ten? There has been good progress so it would be good to see that momentum continue.

The reality is that the multiple learner permits are affecting us, particularly in the bigger centres, because proportionately they will have to consume more customers who are affected by the multiple learner permits. We are working and have another ten testers who will start training. They are predominantly going to be put into the Leinster area. We are working to try to get that down.

My final question relates to cameras. Previously on this committee I have raised the role, working with local authorities and traffic cameras, and how we can better enforce the HGV bans, certainly around the more built-up areas in the city. There have been some pilot programmes put in place. What sort of acceleration is the RSA thinking about for those pilot programmes, especially for active travel routes for cyclists, to make sure HGVs are kept out of those areas? Do the witnesses agree that cameras are quite effective as a deterrent where existing bans are already in place? What plans are there for the acceleration of that programme?

The camera enforcement group has been established under the action plan that is currently in place under the road safety strategy. That enforcement group is chaired currently by the NTA and we are a member of that group. I do not have that specific information but I can take it away and respond to the Deputy.

Thank you.

I want to continue on the point Deputy Moynihan was making about e-scooters. My understanding is that it is not legal for anyone under the age of 16 to be using an e-scooter. I am looking at the website now of one of the leading Irish toy retailers and there are five e-scooters available. Three of them are marketed from six to eight years, two are marketed from nine to 11 years and two are marketed for "big kids", whatever that is. Looking up their specifications, the Gyro H40 electric scooter, with age suitability of six years plus, has a maximum speed of 16 km/h, a run time of 40 to 60 minutes and a product range of 8 km. The RSA has spoken about its role in education and what it can do there, but we have major manufacturers pushing these on parents and kids.

Is there a role for a legislative response in terms of a greater duty on these manufacturers?

The Minister of State, Deputy Canney, has spoken on the particular point that they are so available online. I will not name any company but they are available to purchase and they are targeted at children when it is illegal.

How does the RSA advise that we proceed on this point? Would it be a clear legislative ban on their sale to those aged under 16?

It is illegal that someone aged under 16 is on an e-scooter.

Yes, on it but is it illegal to sell at the moment under the current law?

My understanding is that it is illegal to sell to someone aged under 16.

What is being marketed here, what I am looking up online and what anyone can look up online is illegal.

It would seem so, yes.

Moving away from e-scooters marketed at children to e-scooters that have a speed limit of greater than 20 km/h, I understand that up to 20 km/h is legal. What is the legal status of a company in Ireland marketing an e-scooter with a speed above 20 km/h?

My understanding is that it would be illegal. The legislation is quite clear that anything above 20 km/h is illegal.

To the knowledge of the RSA, has there been any prosecution of retailers in Ireland for selling e-scooters to young people below the age of 16 or e-scooters that do a speed greater than legally permitted?

Not that I am aware of.

I will bring us back to the broader point of where we stand with the RSA right now. I have no doubt that it has been difficult for Ms Coleman, the management team and the staff to hear the criticism coming from these hearings over the past six months.

It has.

Yet with 93 people dead on our roads already this year, it is imperative that we review the State's response to the crisis on our roads and the RSA is absolutely front-line. We had a situation two years ago when a major restructuring of the organisation was agreed by the Government. The operational elements of the NCT, licensing and testing were to be done by one organisation, allowing the RSA to focus on its key mandate of saving lives on our roads. The RSA welcomed this at the time. The new Minister came in and scrapped that programme of reform but he has not come forward with his own set of proposals as yet. There is a fundamental disagreement about whether the RSA is best structured to save lives on our roads. This is not the fault of any of the witnesses or any of the RSA's employees but this fundamental disagreement is very much central to the work this committee is doing right now. Three weeks ago, the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, was here and he said he would bring forward a set of reforms for the organisation. Has he briefed Ms Coleman on what these reforms will be? Does she know when they will be publicly announced?

He has not briefed the executive team directly. He has been in contact with our chairperson and our board. I understand there has been some over and back at that level. I know he has made a commitment that he will be back with reforms in a number of weeks. I understand our chair will want to work with us with on this in the coming weeks. This is where it is at. We understand the time pressures and he has placed-----

The RSA has not been given a timeline as yet as to when it will be told what reforms are coming down the track.

No. However, we anticipate there is an urgency to it, based on the fact the Minister of State has asked the chair to come back to him in the coming weeks. We will support our chair, our board and the Minister of State with respect to any reform he may propose.

What is the current total staffing of the RSA?

At the moment we are just shy of 500 whole-time equivalents across the organisation. We have over 62 driving test centre locations.

Will Ms Coleman give a sense of these 500 whole-time equivalents? What proportion is directed towards the operational side versus the broader road safety side?

Very roughly I would say 65% is directed towards operations across the NCT, CoVIS, driver theory tests and administration support. I would say that in and around 20% are on what was deemed in the Indecon report to be public interest, which is research, standards and education partnerships-----

That means about 100 for road safety.

The remainder are support services, such as ICT, HR, finance and strategy areas. It is in and around this. I can give the Deputy the details.

Ms Coleman raised the importance of the 30 km/h zones in urban areas and asked for our support in implementing these. Last year a decision was made not to make the 30 km/h zone the default setting in urban areas. It was decided to let each local authority make its own call. Did she think this was the right approach to take?

When it comes to the 30 km/h zones, the evidence is there that they work. This is why, when local authorities approach Deputies and Senators, we ask that they support them because quite a breadth of work has to be done by local authorities to get them in place. A date has put in place of March 2027. We hope efforts will be made. The vulnerable road user numbers we see, whereby people are dying in our roads in urban areas, are absolutely unacceptable.

That process has been elongated because it has to be done by the local authority rather than as a default decision.

That is correct.

In Ms Coleman's role as interim CEO, does she accept that reform is needed in the RSA?

Any organisation that does not feel reform is necessary at some point really needs to check itself. We will be 20 years old in September. As an organisation I believe we have done incredible work to bring road deaths down to an all-time low of 11 in 2021. A lot of work needs to be done, including a huge amount in partnership with other agencies and State bodies. Reform can take many guises, including structural. Reform can also mean additional responsibilities. It could mean that elements of our work are moved elsewhere. Reform can take any form or guise. Our executive team and I will work with the Minister and the board to implement any reform opportunity or challenge over the weeks, months and possibly years ahead.

Does Ms Coleman think the RSA has the required number of staff to deliver the various functions for which it has responsibility when it comes to road safety?

When it comes to the particular road safety side of the house, I would wonder about any organisation that says it could not do with more staff. As an organisation we spent a long time working on our driver testing numbers and we can see the benefits of this now, with Mr. Walsh's team having got the services back to where they need to be. Road safety is Mr. Rowland's area with regard to research and Ms Carey's area with regard to partnership and external affairs. We have a number of staff employed directly and a number who are contractors.

As a follow-up to today's meeting, will Ms Coleman send correspondence to the committee on staff levels over the past five years in the area of road safety, who has responsibility for what and the extent to which these levels have changed each year over the past five years?

It has not dropped in road safety, just so the Cathaoirleach knows. We have supplemented it.

I ask Ms Coleman to follow up with this information as a specific request.

I will.

Following up on driving tests, as public representatives we get requests at various times from people who need their driving licence ASAP, perhaps because they have a vulnerable family member they need to help support or assist. They may live in a rural area that does not have connectivity and they need to get on the road and get driving. It is also linked to employment. Similarly, people get onto us about passport renewals all of the time and with regard to special needs and circumstances we can sometimes use mechanisms to try to expedite this. Is such a mechanism available for Oireachtas Members to engage with the RSA in a way that has empathy and understanding on a needs basis? We all know there is a list and a chronological order. I would welcome information.

Deputies and Senators in their role as public representatives have a right to make representations to organisations like ourselves. Mr. Walsh will answer this.

A year ago in some places there was a waiting list of up to six months to get a driving test but this is not necessarily the case now.

We have representations come through, but the system is fair in that it is designed as first come, first served. However, there are always going to be instances where somebody who has had a life-changing situation, such as caring for somebody who needs to be brought to cancer treatments or whatever, will make representations to us directly. In some cases, we may also have Senators or TDs who make representations to us, and we would look at those situations to try to work with them.

Certainly in the past three to four months, by the time that representation is made to us and we look into it, the test has more than likely already taken place because the waiting times are much leaner than they previously were. There is a mechanism whereby customers can come in to us. They can make the recommendation themselves. They can ask and we will look at it to see if we can help people. At the end of the day, we are a public service. We have to be fair in everything we do, but we also have to be sympathetic to life situations.

I want to be clear that an 18-year-old who is now going to college needing to get a driving test before they go is not life-changing; it is bad planning. We are talking about situations where, God forbid, a person is caring for somebody who needs chemotherapy or another treatment. When it comes to that type of thing, we will always be sympathetic.

I have one or two brief questions. From what we are hearing, it seems to be a six-month waiting list for testing HGVs.

You can get a truck or van test in this country within one week. We have significant surplus capacity.

Is there also a separate walk-around test?

The CPC.

There is concern from some people in the industry regarding wait times between the two tests, or even having to carry out two tests. Could the witness explain how that could be improved?

I think I know where this is coming from. We see people coming in from outside the State who do not have residency yet and therefore cannot get a licence or cannot get a CPC done. They have to wait because they are not resident in this country, particularly when it is-----

They are getting work visas to come in for the haulage industry.

Exactly. They have to go through that process, but that is not a process for the RSA; it is one for the Department of foreign affairs. They have to get their work permits and all that kind of stuff. You then have to be resident in the State before you can participate in our tests.

But the separate walk-around test-----

That is the CPC.