Senator Fallon, Leader of the House, to reply on the Order of Business.

I want to say that this is an extremely sad day for this House. This morning we have probably created a record never before achieved. The expulsions have come about by a ruling of the Chair which I would——

It is a ruling of this House. The matter has been decided, Senator McMahon. It has been decided by the House. The original ruling has been confirmed. That is the position. I ask you to resume your seat.

I would suggest that there is a question mark over the ruling.

I ask you to resume your seat. There is no question mark over the ruling. Thank you, Senator. I have called Senator Fallon, Leader of the House, to reply on the Order of Business.

I, and every Member of this House would share the view that we do not want any group to be denied its Private Members' time.

Do you ensure that Senator Murphy——

Order. Will Senator Norris please restrain himself?

Senator Norris has never been able to restrain himself.

Standing Order No. 42 is a fact of life. My hands are tied and the Cathaoirleach's hands are tied. It is the rule of the House. If the House wants to change the rule, so be it. In so far as the present situation is concerned, this matter was discussed on a previous occasion in February. There was a vote and the amendment was carried 31 to 12. Concerning the Labour motion, exhaustive requests were made. The Clerk of the Seanad and the Cathaoirleach were involved. I spoke with Senator Costello and with Senator Harte.

Who made the ruling?

Order, please. The Leader of the House is entitled to reply. Will Senator O'Toole please resume his seat.

I am saying——

There is a well established practice that when the Leader of the House is replying he is not to be interrupted. I would suggest, Senator Ryan and Senator O'Toole, that you adhere to that practice, please.

At least be mannerly, if you do not want to contribute to the proceedings.

I am referring to this matter because it was raised by most of the Senators. It was a pity that the offer to meet the Cathaoirleach to discuss the motion was not taken up. Standing Order No. 27 states that a motion may be amended by the Cathaoirleach with the consent of the Senator. Standing Order No. 25 mentions a shorter period for the acceptance of notice of motion. We, as a party, are not afraid of the Private Members' motion from the Labour Party.

We would debate it any time, as we did recently, and we would defend it at any time.

What was wrong with today? That is ridiculous. I cannot accept that. Whatever the reason, this just does not make sense.

The Leader of the House, without interruption.

The teachers are in again today.

The points raised by other Senators dealt with bank charges. It is obviously an important issue for debate. I will think about it and come back to it some other time.

Is the Order of Business agreed.

No.

Regarding item No. 2 on the Order Paper, in view of the fact that we have lost some time, I suggest that we have 15 minutes for spokespersons and ten minutes per speaker thereafter.

No. I have been very patient on the Order of Business. Because of what has happened, the Order of Business is now in tatters. I think there should be the proper amount of time devoted to the inquiry motion. It is a very important item and should not be rushed through. All sides want to speak on it. I am asking that the original time be restored to that motion, even if it means meeting this evening in the time now vacated by Private Members' time.

I suggest that we have no sos between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. and that we continue the debate until 3 p.m. That would make up for the hour lost.

Yes.

Is the Order of Business agreed?

The Order of Business is opposed.

In view of what I said in reply to Senator Manning, we will have opening speeches of 20 minutes and for each subsequent speech we will allow 15 minutes.

The question is: "That the Order of Business be items Nos. 2 and 3, that speeches on item No. 2 shall not exceed 20 minutes for the opening speeches and 15 minutes thereafter, that business on item No. 2 shall be brought to a conclusion at 3 p.m. and that item No. 3 be taken until 6 p.m.

Vótáil.

The question is: "That the Order of Business be agreed to" and on that question a division has been challenged. Will those Senators calling for a division please rise in their places?

Senators Norris, B. Ryan and O'Toole rose.

As fewer than five Senators rose in their places, I declare the question carried.

The names of Senators dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of Proceedings of the Seanad.