I welcome the fact that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, has published his proposals for local government reform and call for a debate on the matter. I hope that we will have a constructive and informed debate. I accept that in order to do that we will need time to study his proposals.

The Leader will be aware that there is a lot of concern in Waterford about the merger of Waterford city and county councils. Why is Waterford being singled out for such treatment? There is a perception in Waterford - I do not know whether it is just a perception or a reality - that its councils are being singled out. The city must compete on an uneven playing field. For example, the city does not have a university and there is high unemployment that is way above the national average. It will be difficult if Waterford city ends up without its autonomy and local authority. Galway, Cork or Dublin have not been treated in the same manner.

There is real concern this will have a negative impact and stunt the growth of Waterford city. I will study the detail of what has been published. Both Waterford city council and county council are very much opposed at political level to a forced amalgamation. The city has different needs from the county that require different responses to issues which are unique to different parts of the city. Aside from history and heritage, which is important, the economic reality is that Waterford city needs to be the key engine and the economic driver of the south-east region. Without being autonomous and having its own local authority, it could make the job all the more difficult.

I welcome the publication of proposals by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan. I have concerns about the proposed merger. I hope the Leader will provide time in this House in the course of the next few weeks to have a more informed and constructive debate on all of the proposals published by the Minister.

I welcome the debate on local government reform. Senator Terry Leyden has left the Chamber but I thank him for sending eight councillors from County Roscommon to County Donegal. The number of councillors in County Donegal has increased by eight while Roscommon has lost eight. That reflects the distribution of population, with County Donegal experiencing growth and County Roscommon suffering a decline.

Reform of local government is well overdue. I served on Letterkenny Town Council and Donegal County Council for many years. I appreciate the hard work that town councils carry out but this will not diminished by new district councils. I hope an area such as Letterkenny will benefit from increased representation but, more important, that councils will have more powers and autonomy. I hope the local authority will collect and decide on the spending of the household charge or property tax. We have one of the most centralised systems of administration in the western world. The new proposals can bring only more devolved powers to local authorities. I fully agree that reform is necessary. The town councils have been targeted for abolition but their work will not be diminished. Local councillors do a fantastic job but in the long term it is necessary to give power to the people. That is the intent of the proposals.

I thank Senator Leyden, who is not present, to say that we knew everything ahead of everybody else

Senator Harte should not refer to Senators who have left House, and should know that at this stage.

He is attending a committee meeting.

A Chathaoirligh- - - - -

The Senator is over his time.

We should have an early debate on the proposals for reform of local government. This serious task should be conducted in a non-partisan way. We need to tease out what the reform of local government entails - is it about economics, democracy or politics? We do not sit on local authorities, but we must consider how these proposals affect the people on the ground. There is a public perception of a creeping centralisation when it comes to the local democratic process and as a result accountability and responsibility suffers. We know from personal experience that the power of local pride is unique. We can see this at a time of achievement. We can see it at a time of challenge and also in the time of need. If we want to know how town councils are respected, we need only look at the turnout at election time, which is always exceptionally high. One of the main reasons is the accountability at local level.

I sat on Cashel town council for 18 years. I can remember the annual Estimates meeting. People were waiting outside to ask councillors to account for the striking of the rate. That is immediate accountability. The greater the level of centralisation, the more one dilutes the local input.

Another aspect is its historical significance. We have a charter in Cashel dating back several hundred years. History tells us that the charter for the town council was given on the bridge of Golden by King William. Whether we like King William is not the issue. It is vital that the ceremonial nature of the councils and the heritage that goes with it are kept intact. They will not be kept intact if this comes down to enlarging a county council and the removal of the local focus. We should give great thought to the impact of this reform in the context of tourism. We have seen time and again dignitaries coming to a town, meeting the mayor and the local council and getting a sense of stability and often an industry has been won for an area. The same applies to tourism which I have no doubt is one of our most important industries. The local council has been a vehicle for presenting it in the best fashion. I, therefore, repeat my question: is this about economics? Is it about democracy, or is it about politics?