I raise a matter of major public interest, which has already been raised by Senator MacSharry: the recent exposé by Gemma O'Doherty in the Irish Independent which uncovered appalling malpractice in the State-funded crisis pregnancy counselling agencies and, in particular, the Irish Family Planning Association. I fear that Senator Bacik may be attempting to minimise the matter by not recognising that what is at issue is the endangering of women’s lives by State-funded agencies. Counsellors in these agencies have been shown to have acted illegally and with gross disregard for the safety of women in their care. In some cases, as has been pointed out, the advice given was dangerous to women’s lives.

The HSE has responded that it will conduct an investigation into the matter. This raises further questions, however, since the HSE is implicated in the malpractice, in some cases, and in the illegal activities.

If there were illegal activities, these should be reported to the Garda.

Senator Mullen to continue, without interruption.

I understand the activity in question has been reported to the Garda.

Then there is an investigation ongoing.

There is also the complicating fact that the newly appointed head of the HSE, Tony O’Brien, is a former chief executive of the IFPA.

A Leas-Chathaoirligh, is it proper to impugn the reputation of people named in the House without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves?

Senator Mullen, bí cúramach.

Beidh mé an-chúramach.

Senator Norris, that was an inappropriate interruption.

I absolutely reject that and ask you to withdraw it immediately. It was perfectly appropriate. A gentleman was named and his reputation was impugned. If you cannot see that this was the point at which you should have intervened, I am very glad that I did. I will not withdraw it.

Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?

I have resumed my seat.

The Senator's interruptions are delaying proceedings.

I hope I will not be prevented from making my point but I certainly do not intend to impugn anyone’s reputation.

Senator Mullen has less than a minute left.

I said it was a complicating factor. It is inappropriate that the Minister has not yet commented on this scandal as it is a matter of the utmost public interest and urgency. Is it safe practice for counsellors to give information about how to illegally smuggle an abortion pill into Ireland and take it without medical supervision? Is it legal for counsellors to tell women that they should falsify their medical histories to claim they had a miscarriage in the event of post-abortion complications, given that this could endanger their lives, according to someone no less than the master of the Rotunda Hospital? Is it legal for Irish counselling services to enter into arrangements with foreign abortion clinics which offer reduced rates to Irish women if they received counselling in Ireland, given the requirements of the Regulation of Information (Services Outside the State For Termination of Pregnancies) Act 1995? Why does the IFPA continue to promote an abortion clinic in Calthorpe in Birmingham which is the subject of police-----

Once again the Senator is impugning reputations, this time of a particular organisation. It is not appropriate.

Is this an appropriate intervention?

I am trying to be fair. I have asked Senator Mullen to conclude. I do not want anyone impugned here but the interruptions are not helpful either.

Senator Healy Eames should speak with her boss.

Senator Mullen should conclude.

I will conclude by saying that I am concerned that certain people do not appear to want the truth to be properly dealt with. We owe a debt of gratitude to Gemma O'Doherty, to the Irish Independent and to the women who carried out this investigation, who have done the State some service. I hope we can have the Minister in the House to make an overdue statement and I hope the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will see fit to ask the most probing of questions.

The Senator has made his point.

I hope it will look at the transcripts, interview the people who carried out the investigation and ask the hard questions of the HSE and the agencies involved. I do not believe Senator Bacik, Senator Norris or anyone else here should feel threatened by that.

We do not.