I join other Senators in calling for a debate on the expert group's report. It is important that the debate take place prior to any decision being taken by the Government, if we are to have any input into it. Once the decision is made, all we will be doing is commenting after the event. It is interesting that the report discusses the role of psychiatrists and mentions that in the case of suicidal ideation there are recognised clinical challenges in correctly diagnosing express suicide intent. The absence of recognised clinical markers makes it a more subjective process. We must bear that in mind.

It was interesting for people who took the trouble to go to the address on the paper by Patricia Casey this morning to hear about the research she has carried out. It shows that between 1980 and 2011, a period of 31 years, there were 686,000 births in the three major maternity hospitals in Dublin. Two people died from what are called maternal suicides. Maternal suicide is where the woman dies during the pregnancy or within the six weeks following the birth. Both cases occurred in the six weeks following the birth. In one case, the woman had a history of depression and in the second case the woman had a history of abuse. There were, therefore, other reasons for it.

We must have this debate because the guidelines and regulations must be teased out vis-à-vis the option of legislation. The problem with taking the legislative route, according to what I am told by lawyers, is that one must legislate for the X case judgment. That case includes suicide and taking that route means opting for a liberal abortion regime.

That is nonsense.

Senator Walsh to continue, without interruption.

This is the demarcation between Senator Bacik's and Senator O'Keeffe's position on the matter-----

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, has made that clear.

-----and the position of the pro-life people who do not want abortion on demand but want to protect the life of the mother.

We are not debating the matter today.

We must have a debate on it, to discuss the continuation of life. This is challenging, particularly for those in the Fine Gael Party, where there are people on the pro-choice side and on the pro-life side. We should follow the advice of Edmund Burke, the great Irish parliamentarian. Do not abrogate one's conscience to people such as Deputy Alan Shatter, Deputy James Reilly, Senator Ivana Bacik, Senator Susan O'Keeffe or Deputy Eamon Gilmore. People should follow their own consciences-----

The Senator is out of time and completely out of order.

-----and I urge them to do so.

The Senator is out of line.

We are not having that debate today.

We must have a debate on this issue before rather than after the event.

An informed debate.

For a man who is asking for a debate, Senator Jim Walsh is starting from a very strange place by accusing people of all kinds of nonsense.

The Senator is pro-choice.

The Senator should make no assumptions.

The Senator is pro-choice.

Does Senator O'Keeffe have a question for the Leader?

I have, but I will not be hectored and lied about. Senator Jim Walsh should not make accusations about me.

I am asking the Senator to be honest.

The Senator had his chance to speak and went over time also. Does Senator O'Keeffe have a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?