Government response to Magdalen report
Senators debate whether the Taoiseach has apologised sufficiently, caution against politicising the issue, and urge a measured Government response. They support a dedicated debate and discuss compensation, State responsibility and the need for practical supports.
Yesterday we paid tribute to former Senator Martin McAleese which largely had to do with his detailed work on the Magdalen laundries report. We should be careful not to impugn his or his team's integrity. I believe they gave a fair and accurate assessment of what happened within the terms of reference. Yes, that was a huge blot on the State and certainly there were barbaric and horrific practices involved. I am saddened that some Members are, in effect, playing politics with the issue. They are implying that the Taoiseach was personally responsible. He has said sorry, and I believe-----
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That apology is inherent in everything he has said.
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I have. He is a compassionate and kind man and that has been agreed.
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In the debate that will follow there will be further responses and I urge caution.
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I join colleagues in expressing dissatisfaction at the lack of a full and comprehensive apology by the Taoiseach yesterday, following publication of the excellent report carried out by former Senator Martin McAleese and his team, which vindicated what had being said by many families, parents and the women down through the years. As outlined by Senator Ó Murchú, the advice of the Attorney General was probably sought at the Government meeting yesterday on the question of compensation. That is a narrow way of looking at the issue. The issue is about closure, providing forgiveness and reassurance and, as one lady said yesterday on radio, the State wrapping its arms around us again. That was not done yesterday which was a mistake. I hope the Taoiseach will reflect on it. I understand he will look comprehensively at the documentation but he would be better advised to listen to some of the victims and respond more quickly than is proposed. Whether the issue of compensation arises, those people deserve compensation if it is to be made available. That should not be an issue.
I call on the Leader to invite the Minister for Education and Skills to the House to discuss the new means-testing arrangement which he is due to bring to Cabinet this month for including farmland and assets of the self-employed in consideration for third level grants. That would mean students from farming backgrounds would be unable to go to third level education. The Minister does not appear to have any idea of the implications of the proposal. I appeal to the Leader to liaise with the Minister's office as to when the proposal is due to go before Cabinet and allow us have our say before that occurs.
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I join colleagues in congratulating and complimenting former Senator Martin McAleese and his team on the publication of the report yesterday. The facts and scale of the Magdalen laundries scandal are known. It is appropriate that the Government would take time to analyse the comprehensive report and give its response. It should not be forgotten that this is the first Government in the history of the State to tackle the issue. I remind Senator Ó Domhnaill that his colleagues sat on their backsides for 14 years and did absolutely nothing for those vulnerable people who have suffered so much at the hands of the State.
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An apology is important and I have no doubt it will come. However, an apology must mean more than words. It is appropriate and the Taoiseach has a responsibility to ensure that when he gives that apology he has put in place some supports and benefits for the people who have suffered much. He also has a responsibility to act on behalf of the State which is broke. We have to put in place an appropriate apology and supports that we can afford. As stated, the Taoiseach is a caring person who will do the right thing for those people who deserve to be treated properly. For decades they have been left in a state of limbo where nobody appeared to care or did nothing for them until this Government took decisive action.
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I would like to follow up on what my colleagues have said about the Magdalen laundries and the ladies who were incarcerated in these gulags. I have to say our reputation has been sullied once more. Holy Ireland used to be known around the world as a holier-than-thou Catholic country, but it has become totally clear that the human rights of women and children were denied and that sexual abuse took place in many institutions. My former colleagues in the Oireachtas, Tom Kitt and Michael Kennedy, valiantly established an ad hoc Oireachtas committee to seek justice for the Magdalens. They were stonewalled by civil servants who briefed their Ministers and did not want to upset the apple cart. We need an investigation into Departments that stymie development. I had a go at the Secretary General of the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation yesterday. These civil servants hold back our country in more ways than one. In years to come, this will be investigated.
I have to say that various Fianna Fáil Ministers failed to follow this issue up because they were afraid of what would happen. They did not have the political guts to speak the truth regardless of the repercussions. I will set out what has to be done. Of course we all want the Taoiseach to give a full apology. These women, many of whom are very old and some of whom are in my age group, do not want to go to their death beds without getting an apology from the State. Those who worked in these laundries as slave labour should be able to die in peace when the time comes. The departmental officials who went to investigate the laundries did not give a damn that the women were not being paid. As they were not paying social welfare, they were not entitled to claim pensions. That needs to be resolved. I want a full State apology to be given and recompense to be paid. These women should be able to spend the rest of their lives in proper physical accommodation.
I would like to conclude by mentioning another bête noire of mine. On 25 May, the Secretary General of the Department of Justice and Equality, Mr. Seán Aylward, told the-----
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I remind the Senator that we refrain from mentioning people's names on the record of the House.
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-----UN committee against torture in Brussels that a small number of the women in Magdalen laundries were there because they were forced by the State. He should be brought in here-----
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-----to accept that 2,146 human beings were put into Magdalen laundries by the State.
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Yesterday was another sad day for this country. Our international image as the land of saints and scholars, which we enjoyed for a long time, is long gone as a consequence of the many reports that have been released in recent years. We are too quick to hand responsibility for everything to the State. As a society, we must read and take stock of this report. It makes it clear the Catholic Church, society at large and the Government were responsible for the horrific and barbaric treatment of these women. We all must reflect on the inescapable fact that this was tantamount to slavery. It is very important for the issue of compensation to be addressed. While it is easy to say that the State should wrap its arms around these women and apologise to them, it is important for a full and meaningful apology to be extended to them, as Senator Mullins said. As Senator Keane said, the provision of compensation is the only tangible way for the State to show it is truly sorry for what these women endured. The pensions issue has been mentioned. Quite simply, these women should be paid for the work they did. They were treated as slaves. The reality is that they need to be compensated for the work they did. Their abandonment by the State also needs to be addressed in this way. We really need to have a debate on the matter in the House. The Taoiseach's suggestion that the report should be digested in some way is very important. I hope a debate can be facilitated, perhaps next week.
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I welcome this report. It is long overdue. I pay tribute to Senator Ó Murchú, who summed it up very well. In fairness, the Government should have taken two weeks to consider the matter before dealing with it comprehensively, rather than having the report published at this stage. The demand was for it to be published as soon as it was made available to the Government. That is what the Government did. Some of those who have come in here to criticise the Taoiseach are members of a party that did absolutely nothing for 14 years when it was in government. Some of those who were detained in Magdalen laundries died during that time. Regardless of what happens now, those people will not receive an apology now because they are not alive. I advise the Senators in question to keep that in mind. Equally, I do not think the party that took 17 years to apologise for the death of a garda is in any position to criticise the Government for not dealing with this issue.
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We should approach this issue in a calm and measured manner. The Government has said that it will arrange a debate on this matter and that it will deal with it comprehensively and carefully. Governments should be given time to deal with reports like this after they are published. That is what this Government is doing. I remind the Leader that it is important for this House to have a debate on this report. We should deal with it comprehensively. We need to ensure procedures are put in place when an issue arises and the State is involved. I am reminded of the nursing home cases long ago. In that case, the State kicked the issue around for 24 years without doing anything about it. When an issue arises, we should not allow any Department to try to push it under the carpet. That seems to have been the approach of Administrations in this country for far too long. It is time we changed that system. We need to put procedures in place to ensure that when valid complaints about how we do our business in this country are raised, they are dealt with immediately rather than being left lying around for ten, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years.