Senator Darragh O'Brien has raised a reasonable question on the remuneration of some senior bank officials. One hears this point from people on the street and I believe the Government's opinion is exactly the same. I have never met anyone, apart perhaps from the officials themselves, who would try to justify the figures, which without question are outrageous. I accept that even were they lower, it would not make any significant difference to the balance sheet of the State. Surely, however, that is not the issue because it was agreed from the outset that austerity would be spread across the board. People at the very lowest level of income have been obliged to bear the burden of such austerity. What I find difficult to understand, this also is from where Senator Darragh O'Brien is coming, is that while everyone is clear on this position, these officials come across as the untouchables. I cannot understand how this can be the case because ultimately, they would not have a job had not the taxpayers bailed out the banks. This is the logic of what Members are dealing with in this regard and if there is an opportunity for the Minister to indicate the feeling that is abroad among the taxpayers which I believe is shared right across the board, such an opportunity should not be lost. Senator O'Brien also has raised this point but if there is some protocol or something about this debate that Members do not understand, they should be told what it is. On the face of it, however, Members have a difficulty with the remuneration some of the aforementioned officials are receiving. Unless a specific opportunity is availed of, such as that which now arises in which the Minister can quite clearly vote against such remuneration, there will always be people who are suffering and who feel dissatisfied with the manner in which these officials genuinely are getting away.

I ask the Leader to try to find out precisely what is the position. He might ascertain the reason Members are left in a cul-de-sac and no answers are forthcoming. He might try to find out the reason there is no logic to this debate - because there is none - and therefore unless answers are found, I genuinely believe the ordinary person in the street will not continue to bear the austerity measures with the patience and fortitude I have shown. There is no patience, no fortitude and absolutely no generosity on the part of the officials involved. This matter should be tackled straight away and if the Minister is not in a position to express people's dissatisfaction on behalf of the State and if there is some reason for this, Members should have a full debate in this House on the matter to tease out precisely the reason we find ourselves in this position. I compliment Senator Darragh O'Brien on bringing forward this matter in the Seanad today.

I stand here in incredulity regarding bankers' pay. While I do not wish to go back over history, I am afraid I must.

The Fianna Fáil road to recovery-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes.

Not again.

Could the Senator ask a question of the Leader?

We considered Senator Darragh O'Brien's motion. Before I ask the question, I wish to say that during the Celtic tiger period, when the bankers were getting pay increases, there was silence from the Government.

And from the other side too.

And Fianna Fáil-----

And Fine Gael.

We did not own the banks.

We did not own the banks.

We had no stake in the banks.

Could Senator Harte ask a question of the Leader? We are on the Order of Business.

What is Senator Harte's point? We did not have any stake in the banks.

Senator O'Brien, please.

Senator Darragh O'Brien has answered my question.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Could Senator Harte tell me why he is not voting on it tomorrow?

The Independents were the only ones who raised the issue.

Could Senator Harte be allowed to speak without interruption? Does he have a question for the Leader? We are on the Order of Business.

He is addressing all his comments to me. It is very unfair.

I am just coming to the question. Senator Darragh O'Brien has answered my question. He says the pay of bankers is not an issue for him. He said-----

Why would I have raised-----

The Senator should stop interrupting. Does Senator Harte have a question for the Leader?

I wish to clarify the position.

I raised the issue.

The Senator said that during the Celtic tiger period we did not own the banks; therefore, it was okay then for bankers to earn €1 million a year.

No.

Senator O'Brien, please. Does Senator Harte have a question?

As Senator Harte is in government, could he tell me why he is not voting on this tomorrow?

Will the Senator, please, respect the Chair?

I do respect the Chair.

Does Senator Harte have a question for the Leader?

The Senator is losing the run of himself. I do not even know what he is talking about.

Does Senator Harte have a question for the Leader?

I want to ask the Leader to ask the leader of the Fianna Fáil group to give a response following a debate in the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis this weekend on why bankers' pay reached such levels. It was not because of the Government.

That is not a question for the Leader.

It is really the Bertie legacy.

Is the Senator asking me that question?

We are dealing with the Bertie legacy. There is no shame on the other side of the House.

I am sorry, a Chathaoirligh, but I have no protection.

There will be less shame at the weekend.

Senator Harte is way over time.

It is the Bobby Ewing effect. One can come out of the shower and forget about everything that happened previously.