Idi Amin.

I would like to second Senator Diarmuid Wilson's amendment to the motion. I agree with the views of Senator Deirdre Clune on the contribution that Apple makes to the Irish economy, with more than 3,500 people employed in Cork. I think we in this Chamber should invite Apple chief executive, Tim Cook, to this House and ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, to outline the situation. As a former Minister of State with responsibility for trade, I led delegations to the United States to meet major corporations. Under no circumstances was an offer made on the tax rate except the 12.5% corporation tax rate. No such offer exists. It is totally untrue. The then IDA CEO was Mr. Padraic White, one of the finest chief executives ever in that position.

I negotiated the deal in which Heineken came to Cork and bought Murphys. It was a very difficult deal because at that stage inflation was at 17% to 18% and interest rates were such that there was a major difficulty in Cork. We could not offer Heineken anything less or more than 12.5%. When all the major companies came to Ireland, such as Google and Intel, which was negotiated by the then Minister, Mr. Des O'Malley, me as the Minister of State with responsibility for trade, and Padraic White, we did not offer them 2%. There was no such offer.

Is the Senator looking for a debate?

Yes, I am. When a member of the American Senate would try to downgrade this country in irresponsible comments, as they did yesterday, it is very important that this House, a democratically elected House whose Members can speak for this country, should refute them. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, who currently holds the Presidency of the Council of the European Union, should fly to the United States, go to the Senate and make a statement to it. The truth is the truth. This is a very serious allegation. Ireland is neither a tax haven nor a tax shelter. Ireland is fighting for survival and this is an effort by certain elements in countries around the world that are jealous of our success in attracting all the multinational firms through the great work of the current chief executive of the IDA, Mr. Barry O'Leary, and former chief executives. I mentioned Mr. Padraic White.

It is very important that we would have a debate in this House. I ask the Leader of the House to arrange a very early debate, tomorrow if possible, if the Tánaiste is available to come and explain the situation. Let us show the files. The files are there and they are open. This is serious. When I hear Members of this House making points about Google, Apple and such companies without being conscious of the fact that Steven Paul Jobs co-founded that company, as a person who was then a Deputy and Minister of State in 1980, I know the facts of the situation and I can state categorically that I never had any authority to deal with tax rates.

The Senator is making a Second Stage speech.

Well said.

I beg to differ with Senator Leyden.

It is not unpatriotic to ask people to pay tax. In fact, it is the contrary.

It is not what we said.

We pursue people in this country if they are overpaid social welfare payments.

Believe what is said.

I spoke to members of a family last week which received a small tax rebate and a year later, the Revenue Commissioners decided it was an overpayment and sent debt collectors after them with penalties. The issue has been discussed in Europe for some time and Ms Nessa Childers, MEP has brought it up when speaking about tax justice. We are the envy of Europe and the UK with what was regarded as a very attractive 12.5% corporation tax. Maybe I naively thought that this tax rate was being paid by multinationals but it has been proven otherwise. It not just Apple, as the issue involves Starbucks, Google and Facebook. Of course, we welcome the jobs but are we saying we will have the jobs but the companies do not have to pay the 12.5% tax rate? The effective rate apparently being paid by some of the multinationals is-----

Does the Senator have a question?

We need the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation or the Minister for Finance to come to the House to clarify the effective rate of tax.

They might educate the Senator.

We will be paying a double whammy as the issue will not go away. The G8 will address it in Fermanagh next month.

They will be really jealous too.

The Senator, without interruption.

We will lose jobs and tax. The effective rate of tax in this country for ordinary workers is 51% for anybody earning over €35,000. Are we to say that multinationals are not paying their fair share? All we are seeking is the 12.5% rate to be paid on profits. There is nothing wrong or unjust about that and it should not jeopardise foreign direct investment into the country. We should not be afraid to stand up and say that.