I second Senator Crown's motion on the suspension of Standing Orders. The Minister for Finance should come to this House to tell us the terms of reference for the inquiry. Mr. Jean-Claude Trichet should also come here. We need to know what the accountants and auditors were up to during all of this and why the traditional reticence of civil servants in Ireland in regard to spending and husbanding the nation's resources was suspended on an evening when €64 billion walked out the front door of Government Buildings. This has taken far too long. I commend whoever found the tapes and gave them to the media because it has put an urgency into this matter. We always knew Anglo Irish Bank was a bank for about 18 people. I was never able to figure out how it exercised an inordinate control over the Department of Finance and the Central Bank and why it became the role model for banks which, since 1783, had been run sensibly. It is time to draw all this affair into an inquiry and find out what caused so much damage to this country.

I congratulate our Leader on the election of his son to the historic office of mayor of the ancient city of Waterford and I wish the new mayor well.

I did not know about that.

This is the first I have heard of it.

The Independents did not know about it.

It was reported.

I agree with the Leader and with Senator Darragh O'Brien, leader of the Opposition, in regard to their words of caution lest any of us might prejudice any case that might arise from both the Garda inquiries and those of the Director of Public Prosecutions, which I understand are continuing in many cases, regarding the revelations made in these tapes. We must ask why did the leak occur now, so many years later. Who is at work behind the scenes and for what reason? Of course the public deserves answers. We need to establish why there was a failure to explain the facts surrounding our banks' collapse, and the need for the guarantee. It looks now as though the Government of the day was codded, hoodwinked and lied to. Very serious matters are involved regarding Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide, and perhaps others.

As the Taoiseach stated, he has no paperwork to inform or advise him as between the banks of the time and the Government of the time. Perhaps there are more tapes. We need a proper inquiry and I support the calls made in that regard, as I always have. It is coming very late but is still needed. We have had the reports of Watson, Regling and others. Perhaps what we have had will be able to serve as a book, or books, of evidence, in regard to that inquiry. It will need tight terms of reference. We have been guaranteed that the Government is dealing with it, will continue to do so, and will have in place legislation before we rise for the summer recess. I wish that work well.

I join with other speakers in again calling for a debate on the banking system and the need for a banking inquiry. The vast majority of people in the State would not be at all surprised about what is on the Anglo tapes, and the matter reaffirms what people already knew. It angers people and the public is disgusted by it. People are galled by this and they see it as a travesty, as was noted earlier. What happened in the banks was criminal. What really angers people is that those responsible for not only collapsing the banking system, but also the economy - with all the impact this had on the quality of life of ordinary people - have not been held to account or been before the courts. They have not spent a single night in a jail cell.

Senator Kelly spoke about people's gut instinct and how, in retrospect or with the benefit of hindsight, it was wrong to support the bank veto in the insolvency legislation. My gut instinct when the Bill came before the House was not to give the banks a veto. My gut instinct when these issues arose was not to pay the bondholders in full and with interest. My gut instinct was not to allow a position where banking debt would become sovereign debt. I remind Senators who are now very concerned about what is happening with Anglo Irish Bank that not so long ago, in the early hours of the morning, they voted to turn €30 billion of toxic Anglo Irish Bank debt into sovereign debt by way of promissory notes. That decision was taken by people in this House and I stood against that, along with my party.