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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Banking tapes and criminal action

Summary

Senators argue that reduced resources for the DPP and CAB may have hindered action over the banking crisis and call for an urgent criminal investigation into the tapes. Senator MacSharry asks the Leader to press the Garda Commissioner and corporate enforcement authorities for answers, while the Chair rules his later political remarks out of order.

We are almost 50% into the Government's term and many aspects of the programme for Government are being implemented. However, it is regrettable that no individual has yet been jailed for the banking crisis. Is this surprising, though? Since 2008, we have cut the budgets of the offices that deal with such matters. In the past three or four years, the budget of the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, has decreased from €44 million to €36 million. The budget of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, which was initiated under the auspices of Nora Owen by a Fine Gael-led Government, has decreased from €7.5 million to €6.4 million. The budget of the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, ODCE, has decreased from €6 million to €5.3 million. Given these cuts, is it any wonder that we are not in a position to bring people who engaged in treason against the State to justice? I have not even referred to the cuts to the Garda fraud squad. In my humble opinion, we should have provided additional resources to these important offices, not cut them.

I call on the Leader to pass on our views to the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach that we need to see the budgets of these offices restored as a matter of urgency because the people want to see people brought to justice for wrecking the country. White collar crime in this country has gone unabated and it has not been dealt with for far too long. It is time for action.

What we heard on the Anglo Irish Bank tapes was appalling. There was a cavalier and an arrogant attitude among senior bankers in the Anglo Irish Bank which, I am sure, was replicated in many other banking institutions but the evidence has not come out yet. The people are seething and want urgent action. The Government needs to lead the way and ensure prosecutions as a matter of urgency. We need a banking inquiry but we need prosecutions also.

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Following on from the theme of the Government speakers, in particular Senator Bacik, it is my opinion that no inquiry under 2005 Act, no tribunal or no Oireachtas inquiry will give the results all of us deserve and desire quickly enough. As Senator Bacik said, the expedition of a criminal investigation is of the utmost urgency. As somebody who knows very little about criminal law and how the justice system works, I know that what I heard on the tapes in recent days is tantamount to conspiracy to defraud the State. Rather than the grandstanding by the Taoiseach on an axis of collusion or whatever words he chooses to use, whatever happens must focus on these tapes and on a criminal investigation. Let me say as a Fianna Fáil person that if a parliamentarian, a banker, a civil servant or anybody else has to feel the full rigors of the law, then that is what must happen.

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Good man. Well said.

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Is the Senator coming out with his hands up?

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Frankly, the Taoiseach is diverting slightly from the crux of the debate, which Senator Bacik captured very well, which is to expedite a criminal investigation.

I call on the Leader to ask the Taoiseach to contact the Garda Commissioner and the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement today to ask what has been happening with these tapes for the past three years, who has them, who has heard them and why has action not been taken on them? If it is a case of resources, in terms personnel and adequate expertise in white collar crime which our justice system does not have, they must be provided forthwith. What have any tribunals of investigation ever given us? Issues are considered over a long period of time and a lot of information is garnered, which is important to get, but would we not be better imprisoning the perpetrators and having a criminal investigation forthwith rather than fruitlessly kicking a football around these Houses and with no return to the public?

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator, you are way over time.

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I know I am but it is a very important issue.

On a slightly different note, I can hardly contain my excitement today that the Taoiseach has agreed to come to the House.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

That is not relevant. You will get a chance during the day to-----

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It reminds me that some infamous people in history attended the Reichstag from time to time before they saw to it being burned to the ground.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

I call Senator Landy.

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