There is a connection between the debate that we are about to have, the debate on the abolition of the Seanad and the response to the disgraceful revelations in the Anglo Irish Bank tapes. There has been an attempt to manage the public mood and outrage without providing details. We all know how shallow the original proposal to abolish the Seanad was. We all know the threadbare arguments that are being made by the Taoiseach and the Government to abolish the Seanad. We all know now, after the media told us about the Anglo Irish Bank tapes this morning, that the debate has moved on to a possible banking inquiry. There seems to be something of bread and circuses about it all.

I agree with Senator Lorraine Higgins when she said that a banking inquiry was not the answer. Instead we need an investigation into crime. Senator Bacik mentioned the importance and pre-eminence of that issue in her contribution and I do not want to prejudice an investigation. It is important that the tapes form part of a prioritised Garda investigation.

Past inquiries have done nothing except depress the public. The inquiries did not contribute to bringing people to justice but this situation demands bringing people to justice. I am worried that the Government is engaging in another bout of distracting the public by again talking of having a referendum to strengthen the powers of the Oireachtas to conduct a banking inquiry and saying we will not get anything better from the Oireachtas. An Oireachtas inquiry would be much worse and far inferior to the reports produced by Nyberg, Regling and Watson and we need to get real about that. We need to focus on investigating a crime.

Today, the Taoiseach will attend for an hour to debate the abolition of the Seanad and I presume that he will not show his face here after that.

On this issue and, indeed, the abortion issue, the Taoiseach has never allowed himself to be confronted by the detail of his proposals.

Hear, hear.

He merely does not engage. He appears to be a managed Taoiseach who comes out with mantric lines-----

Senator Mullen will get time during the debate to put those issues.

Senator Mullen should say that to the Taoiseach.

-----which do not reassure the public that he is across the detail of what he is proposing.

Senator Mullen is way over time. I call Senator Gilroy.

On issues as serious as these, the Taoiseach needs to show for the ball a little more. In conclusion-----

Senator Mullen is over time. I call Senator Gilroy.

-----as we face into this debate on the abolition of the Seanad, I remind the Government Senators in particular of what Mr. Ciaran Fitzgerald said many years ago-----

Senator Mullen is over time. I call Senator Gilroy.

-----when he asked his colleagues on the Irish rugby team where their pride was.

Senator Mullen should resume his seat.

The Government Senators need to find their pride in the coming days and weeks.