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Seanad
‹ Order of Business (Resumed)

Cost of abolishing the Seanad

Summary

Several Senators challenge claims that abolishing the Seanad would save €20 million annually, demand accurate figures and criticise the emerging abolition campaign. The exchange also includes objections to the Taoiseach’s political actions and the treatment of a former Minister of State.

Today a Government Minister misled the people, in making a statement that up to €20 million a year, and up to €100 million over five years, would be saved by the abolition of the Seanad. Before 7 p.m. on Wednesday I want a report on how €20 million a year will be saved to be laid before the House. To state that the money saved could be spent on people with disabilities, among others, is an absolute insult to the intelligence of the people of this country.

Figures cannot be fired around flippantly. I was absolutely livid when I heard such flippant remarks today. A figure of €400,000 per constituency was referred to, as if we had any intention of spending money in such a manner. We cannot do it because the abolition of the House will not save that much money. All that will be saved are the salaries of Senators. We said this last week. I want the statement to be qualified before 7 p.m. on Wednesday. It is only right that, before the Bill is put before the electorate, the actual breakdown of where the savings will be made is put on the record of the House. Today's statement is an absolute lie.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Well said. The Senator is bang on.

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I concur with Senator Mulcahy. What he said is absolutely accurate and fair. I ask the Clerk of the Seanad to find out from the commission the exact cost of the House on a yearly basis. It would be fair and equitable that we know exactly what the House costs and the savings which could occur.

On that basis, I want to confirm with the Leader that, on Wednesday night at 7 p.m., we are debating the Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013. On that basis, I regard it as arrogance that the Taoiseach announces today that he has appointed Deputy Richard Bruton, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, as director of elections for the referendum campaign and Deputy Regina Doherty, who is not a wet day in this House-----

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

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This House is supposed to have free speech.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

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I ask the Leader to confirm that the Bill is still before the House. Has the Bill been passed? Has it been signed by the President? Will the President refer it to the Supreme Court? I want it confirmed by the Leader that this is the case. How can the Taoiseach announce an election campaign that has not yet commenced and appoint a Minister, who should be bloody well busy enough trying to create jobs-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Absolutely.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

That is a matter for the Taoiseach.

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They are spending €150,000 or €200,000 on this wasteful campaign. I hope Deputy Regina Doherty gets her taste of Deputy McEntee in the next election. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

The Senator is overtime.

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The Cathaoirleach should let me finish, I will not take long. The other evening, a Minister of State was forced to resign. It never happened in the history of the State. She made derogatory comments-----

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

That has nothing to do with this House.

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The Cathaoirleach should let me finish the point. I will not be misrepresented, as I was last week in this House. Deputy Creighton made very derogatory comments about Mr. Haughey. Mr. Haughey never fired a Minister of State on the telephone.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

There were plenty of times he should have.

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He should have fired himself.

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We badly need his brains, Senator Conway.

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