I support the Leader of the Opposition's proposal to amend the Order of Business to allow a debate on a very important issue that has arisen here today. When I received the document this morning I was quite surprised at the undue haste in removing excellent people from joint committees of the Houses. Senator O'Donovan, chairman of the said committee, has made a very important statement and the Leader should note it. I recommend that Senators Healy Eames and Bradford go to the High Court to seek a review in accordance with natural justice as Senator Norris has done previously.

Will Senator Leyden pay for it?

This is a very important and significant move.

Is the Senator proposing an amendment?

I am supporting the amendment and I am explaining why.

No one thinks of the cost of going to court.

Senator Leyden without interruption.

Seemingly there is no other recourse. If there is no provision for debate in this House on a very important issue, then there is no other recourse under natural justice other than going to the courts. That is the choice open to any Member of the House if he or she is dissatisfied with the situation. The motion seeks to remove excellent people. The people replacing them also have potential and ability but they were not appointed-----

The Senator was criticising precisely the same people this time last week.

Senator Leyden without interruption.

The Senator seems to be a great convert from the great Fianna Fáil Party.

I saw the light. After what I witnessed here-----

Does Senator Leyden have a question for the Leader?

These are the questions I put to the Leader. I am asking about the procedure adopted which breaks the rules of the House. Senator Heffernan was asked by the Labour Party to resign from a joint committee and refused. He is now being booted out. The Leader of this House has obviously signed this document and it has been authorised by the Government, which has no legal authority in this House in this particular regard. That is a fact. What the Leader is doing is questionably illegal.

Call the Garda.

The Senator can call the Garda, himself.

The Senator is over time.

It deeply encourages me that when a Government is so anxious to get rid of this House it appoints an inept director of elections, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, and a most inept sub-director of elections, Deputy Regina Doherty,-----

The Senator is way over time.

-----who never heard of the Seanad's existence.

I call Senator Moloney.

She is the most Rip Van Winkle of all time.

The Senator is completely out of order. I ask him to resume his seat.

It is insulting to this House to appoint a sub-director who never heard of the Seanad's existence.

Senator-----

She must be the most inept Deputy in Dáil Éireann.

I ask the Senator to withdraw that.

She is the Rip Van Winkle of Irish politics.

The Senator is completely out of order.

That statement about a female Member of the other House should be withdrawn. They are disgraceful statements again, another attack on a Member of the House,-----

The Leader must be joking.

-----who is not here to defend herself.

What has the Leader been doing for the last seven years?

It is disgraceful.

She never heard that Senator Cummins was here or was Leader of this House.

It is disgraceful for Senator Leyden to make these remarks.

I call Senator Moloney.

If the Leader was doing his job, Deputy Regina Doherty would know all about this House.

Senator Leyden, please.

She is a dunce.

I ask the Senator to withdraw that.

I will withdraw nothing.

For once in his life, Senator Leyden should do the decent thing.

I am under parliamentary privilege and when a Deputy gets up and says she has never heard of Seanad Éireann-----

On a point of order-----

-----that person must be totally incompetent.

I do not know if it is a point of order, but this kind of outburst-----

Senator Noone, please.

----- will put the nail in the coffin of this House. We need to calm down.

I ask Senator Noone to resume her seat. I ask Senator Leyden to withdraw the last comment he made.

Withdraw what?

The last comment he made - dunce.

Certainly she is not a dunce, but she must be very inept.

I ask the Senator to withdraw.

Dunce, yes. It is only a word.