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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Cost of abolishing the Seanad

Summary

Senators challenge claims that abolishing the Seanad would save €20 million, arguing that the true saving is substantially lower and that democracy should not be reduced to a crude financial calculation.

Like others, I was not going to speak about the referendum on the abolition of the Seanad, given that we should be discussing more pressing matters, for example, the upcoming budget. I hope that today will be the last discussion on the subject until we are closer to 4 October. However, I agree with all of the contributions so far, particularly concerning the lie being sold to the people about a saving of €20 million. This is unforgivable.

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Denis O'Donovan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

"Lie" is a strong word to use.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

It is a lie.

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It is unforgivable that people can be allowed to lie to the people about €20 million in savings when the figure is actually €4.8 million. The price that one lobby group has put on democracy is one litre of milk per person per year. This is outrageous. Most of the people who are being rolled out to campaign for the abolition of the Seanad are former Senators. Why did they not shout stop while they were in the Seanad? Why did they not view their value as nil? Not one of them spoke about the issue at the time. When we save the Seanad, will they give a commitment that they will never seek seats in this House again when they lose their Dáil seats?

I compliment Ms Gemma O'Doherty on her great work in the Fr. Niall Molloy case. She took it from nothing to being fairly and squarely on the desk of the Minister for Justice and Equality, who promised before the last election an independent commission of inquiry into the death of Fr. Molloy after everything else had been addressed. The cold case investigation has been concluded, the Director of Public Prosecutions has made a ruling and the matter is now with the Minister. Given the great work done by Ms O'Doherty, I call strongly on the Minister to allow the commission of inquiry to go ahead.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

On a point of linguistic order, I wish to point out that someone who deliberately repeats something that he or she knows to be untrue is actually lying.

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Denis O'Donovan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

That is not a point of order.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

It is a perfectly appropriate word to use.

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That is a good point.

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