I second Senator Leyden's amendment.

I also propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that the Minister for Health come to the House today to give an explanation as to the current budget deficit in his Department and the budget for the year ahead. The level of uncertainty is unacceptable. Last Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday I mentioned in the House that it was difficult to see €666 million as the figure for savings and in all likelihood it would be €1 billion. This was picked up in the national media over the weekend and we have since called for the Minister's resignation. There have been umpteen calls over the years for his resignation because of his headless chicken approach to managing our health service. In the past number of days, it has been suggested in the media that a secret meeting took place in advance of the budget during which the Minister sought an additional €1 billion, which did not include the €666 million in proposed savings or the budget deficit. In his Department in a €2 billion hole?

Let us look at this from a business perspective. Intel is similar to the HSE in size with 104,000 employees and €14 billion in income. If the chief executive officer of Intel said, "I don't know how far out of budget I am this year. I think I need €1 billion. My accountants think I have to save an additional €1 billion next year", what would the company's shareholders think? Would they think they have an incompetent on their hands?

The people who work for Intel are not unwell.

Senator MacSharry, without interruption.

It is a spurious example.

Senator MacSharry, without interruption. Has he a question for the Leader?

Would they have confidence in the leadership and management of a company with 100,000 employees and €14 billion of the people's money?

Is the Senator seeking a debate?

I have called for the debate.

It is a remedial comparison. The people who work in Intel are well; the people in hospital are unwell.

Senator MacSharry, without interruption. He is way over time.

I am way over time because I have been accused of being remedial by a Government Member.

I mean the Senator's argument, not himself, unless he wants to be tied to it.

I am putting forward a legitimate point, which is that the current person managing the health service does not inspire confidence. He has control of €13 billion of the people's money.

The Senator can raise those issues during the debate.

By his own admission last week, he knows nothing of the foundation of the figures he proposes to cut from the health service budget yet the reality is he is proceeding to do that.

The Senator is way over time. I call Senator Noone.

In the meantime, he is giving out the old pack of cards in Government propaganda. How many thousand people does the Government need outside the gates?

The Senator is way over time. I call Senator Noone.

The reality is, remedial class or not, I am not housed in the gin and tonic belts of the world that the Government chooses to protect or has to defend in their jobs.

The Senator is way over time.

I want to know about the people outside the gates who the Government is saying it will take another €1 billion from next year. Senator O'Donnell is calling it a remedial example.

Senator MacSharry should resume his seat.

I said Senator MacSharry's example was remedial. This is completely over the top.

The next time Senator O'Donnell is on the Pat Kenny show she can give me a mention.