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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

NAMA allegations and Garda inquiry

Summary

Senators debate whether NAMA allegations should be investigated by the Garda or addressed politically. O’Brien maintains that a second investigation only emerged after questioning in the Seanad, while others urge caution and support a ministerial response before the Christmas recess.

The one matter on which I can agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien is that he should go to the Garda with whatever information he has in his possession. We all have a duty under section 19 of the Criminal Justice Act 2011 to report any impropriety of which we might become aware. In so far as the Senator is aware of some allegation that has been made, it is proper that he is going to do as he intends. Those in the print media will sensationalise matters as best they can, within the parameters of the law, in order to sell newspapers. As politicians, however, we have a duty of care and the one thing we must studiously avoid is being seen to jump on bandwagons. Of course, we are often, and quite typically, accused of doing the latter. Allegations have been made but it should not be further alleged that there is something rotten or wrong with the culture and that this goes to the very top. We should not be impugning the integrity of the board, the chairman or the managing director of NAMA, which is a very important State agency.

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Senator Darragh O'Brien did not do that.

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No, he did not. However, reference was made to the culture that obtains. I am not being critical.

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Senator Paul Coghlan is inferring that he said that.

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I am merely sounding a warning to the effect that we need to be careful. We are aware that NAMA operates within the law on a competitive basis and that it obtains independent valuations. I accept that the market is changing and that, as a result, valuations also change. I am sure those in NAMA are conscious of these matters. NAMA only employs properly qualified people to deal with the assets for which it has responsibility. I urge more care, more caution and less haste.

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Transparency and integrity.

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The Garda bureau of fraud investigation is dealing with the matter and it should be allowed to carry on with its work.

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I did not know-----

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With respect, the investigation has been going on for the past year or two.

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It is the second investigation. It was one investigation when we discussed the matter on Monday, now it is two.

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Somebody gave the Senator information a couple of days ago. That is what happened.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

I call Senator Bradford.

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I ask Senator Bradford to forgive me for impinging on his time.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Senator Paul Coghlan should put his whip back in his pocket.

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Mr. Minority Whip is fully forgiven.

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I like that touch.

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I am normally hesitant to support requests to the effect that Ministers be brought before the House at short notice. It is generally impractical for them to appear in the Seanad with a few hours notice. It is important, however, that between now and Friday afternoon - when the Seanad is to adjourn for the Christmas recess - a Minister should come before us and outline his or her response to the allegations made in the House in respect of NAMA. This is Ireland's first week as a so-called free economy in the aftermath of its exit from the bailout. Apparently, we are in a position to run our own affairs. If the Oireachtas is to ensure the country does not end up in another bailout in the future as a result of bad economics, bad governance or bad politics, it must guarantee that all activities - be they public or political in nature - are carried out in the most transparent and honest fashion possible. I know nothing about NAMA other than what I have read in the newspapers but it is not unfair to suggest that questions must be answered. Taxpayers will eventually foot all of the bills in and we must ensure their money is not wasted. Public reassurance is required. Creating the type of good governance and good politics this country requires to allow it to grow in the future would be best facilitated by ensuring the questions raised by Senator Darragh O'Brien and others, both here and elsewhere, are comprehensively answered. There must be no shred of doubt with regard to an organisation as large as NAMA. The taxpayer has footed the bill to date and will continue to do so in respect of any problems that arise. It would not be practical for the Minister for Finance to come before the House today.

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If I receive a commitment on this-----

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However, I hope he will appear prior the House adjourning for the Christmas recess.

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