I hope that in the forthcoming months, in the run-up to the next general election, there will be a commitment by all parties to a real and exhaustive examination of possibilities for reforming the Senate including allowing intervention with regard to financial matters and referenda.

I would like also to take up this business of Ruhama and Turn Off the Red Light. It is time this kind of nonsense was really honestly addressed. The situation in the North of Ireland is that legislation has recently been passed up there. An examination was carried out by Queen's University Belfast on this issue. It showed that despite the puppeteering going on by this middle class collection of ex-nuns and radical feminists, 98% of the women for whom voices are being articulated by this self-appointed group are opposed completely to it. They constitute 90% of the women working in this area. The Nordic experience is that prostitution is creeping back onto the street. The police are against it by and large. Everybody realises that it is going to be inoperable and ineffective and will lead to serious risks to the lives and welfare of the women and men involved in the sex business. Yes, prostitution is messy. It is regrettable, but it is a fact of life-----

On a point of information.

Senator Hayden, there is no such thing.

I have to totally object to what Senator Norris is saying.

Senator, please resume your seat.

He is suggesting that women choose prostitution like they would choose to be an accountant.

Could the Senator interrupt a little more clearly? I could not hear what she said.

That is disrespectful.

I could not hear what you said.

Senator, through the Chair.

You are suggesting that women choose prostitution like they choose to be doctors or accountants-----

Senator, resume your seat, please.

Read yesterday's edition of The Irish Times.

Senator Norris, please.

It is an outrageous-----

Senator Norris, please.

Thank you, a Chathaoirligh. I am suggesting that a group of middle-class people are pushing an agenda without actually realising what the situation on the ground is. Prostitution has been here forever. It may very well be regrettable but the Senator needs to face the facts and this needs to be operated in a way that looks after the welfare, the health and the safety and security-----

Is Senator Norris suggesting-----

Senator Hayden, please.

-----of the women and the men involved in this and not in this academic approach-----

I am sorry but I cannot let that go.

You have to. Let us have a debate and we can all have our views on it.