-----others commented on poverty and on the report published yesterday. The best way to tackle poverty is to get people back to work.

Yes and to facilitate that, the cost of child care must be reduced.

A comprehensive debate on this matter took place at yesterday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection. I am informed that no Fianna Fáil or Sinn Féin representatives were present at that meeting.

Is that a fact? There are so many Government Members in the Dáil they are falling all over each other. Fianna Fáil only has 18 Deputies.

The Senator is calling for a debate in this House-----

He certainly is.

This is the forum-----

The Leader, without interruption.

-----in which it should be discussed.

The Leader, without interruption.

Fianna Fáil cannot have it every way.

On a point of order-----

Senator MacSharry on a point of order.

The Senator is not going to raise a point of order.

-----it is only fair that the Leader should acknowledge that we have passed motions to show-----

The Senator should resume his seat. That is not a point of order.

-----that Senators on this side are committed, in the first instance, to the business of this House.

The Senator should resume his seat.

That is how they will be involved. As the Leader well knows, the only exception is the banking inquiry.

If the Senator were a Deputy he would know a lot about it.

Senator MacSharry should resume his seat.

It is not a matter for the Leader's party to decide what can or cannot be debated in this House. The Seanad is representative of the people and, regardless of whether Fine Gael likes it, Senators are entitled to engage in debates on behalf of the people.

Senator MacSharry should resume his seat and show respect for both the House and the Chair.