On a point of order, I am a pro-choice activist, not an abortion supporter. I ask Senator Rónán Mullen to get that right. After so many years one would think he would have learned by now.

It is semantics. It is the same thing. Why not give the reality of abortion to people instead of hiding it behind phraseology?

I do not hide behind it.

Why not tell people the reality?

Why is it happening?

Does Senator Rónán Mullen have a question for the Leader?

Yes and for the Deputy Leader. I never interrupt.

Wrong.

Does Senator Rónán Mullen a question for the Leader? The Senator's time is over.

I am always astonished at Senator Ivana Bacik's Pavlovian response-----

As the Senator has no question for the Leader, I call Senator John Gilroy.

-----when she and her colleagues are challenged about their support for abortion.

The Senator is way over time.

In conclusion, she has not yet spoken about the grisly realities-----

I ask the Senator to, please, resume his seat.

-----we are learning about Planned Parenthood in America which funds-----

The Senator is way over time.

It is really time that we discussed some of the terrible things that are happening in our world.

The immediately previous exchange demonstrates why we cannot have a mature debate.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Yes, but I want to build a background to my question. The exchange demonstrates why we cannot have a mature debate on these very important issues. People start roaring, shouting and throwing personal abuse at others just because they oppose the position that people take.

That is unfair on Senator Ivana Bacik. She was not shouting.

It was not meant.

There has been a good debate on this issue.

A torrent of abuse was directed at my colleague because of a position that they do not share. Personal abuse is never appropriate. If that is the level of argument that this House is able to generate, I do not think it is worth engaging at all.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader on today's Order of Business?