I agree with the sentiments expressed by Senator Norris regarding the banks. It seems quite obvious that the banks are steering people away from their doors. They are striving to get everybody, including the elderly, to use machines. We saw what happened last week and they had to row back on another effort to keep people away from their doors. I do not blame the staff of the banks but this seems to be policy coming from the highest levels of the banking sector.

Last week, my assistant tried to buy a bank draft in a bank in Dublin. First, he could not pay for it in cash. Second, he had to give a reason he wanted the bank draft, which in this case was for a wedding. Third, he could not make it payable to the happy couple because he had to know whether they had a joint account. After 20 minutes of frustration, he went across the road to the post office and got a post office draft in 45 seconds with no questions asked. If one rings one's local bank, and everyone has their local bank number, one will get through to Dublin so the banks are doing everything in their power to frustrate people. A lady from Elphin who wanted to get Australian dollars when she went into the bank was told that it did not have them but to ring back later. She rang back later and got through to Dublin. What are they going to do for her if she wants Australian dollars?

What appears to be happening here is that the banks are trying to move to staffless and machine-led operations. Down the road, they will then turn around to the people and say "Because you didn't use us, you're going to lose us." These are the facts of the matter. I believe that people should move to their local credit unions and post offices. These outfits view them as customers while the banks view them as a nuisance. We should remember that during the crash, the credit unions got into difficulty to the tune of €25 million. The banks got into difficulty to the tune of €64 billion yet the same heavy-handed regulations now apply to the credit unions as to the banks. A debate on this issue at some point would be worthy and warranted.

I want to continue on the theme of the banks' disdain and contempt for ordinary customers, as reflected in the contributions of previous speakers. I am particularly pleased to note from today's newspapers that An Post is in the process of rolling out a banking system. Perhaps the Leader will indicate whether - given that it has already frustrated the credit unions, by way of restrictive legislation, from providing business loans - the Government is on the side of the banks. According to newspaper reports, the Government is delaying the roll-out of the banking service by the post office system across the country. According to those reports - I am sure the Leader will clarify the position in respect of them - the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is delaying the proposed roll-out by An Post of its banking service. Is that true? If so, is it doing it in order to defend the banks again? I find it somewhat ironic that at a time when Bank of Ireland is proposing to limit the access of customers to banking services, it is also rolling out a business enterprise concept countrywide in an effort, in my opinion, to portray itself as one of the good guys. As already indicated in various earlier contributions, Bank of Ireland is attempting to stop individual customers going into its branches. That bank is doing everything in its power to encourage people to bank online rather than visit its premises.

I am not trying to score a political point. Whatever about the merits or otherwise of the credit union legislation, if An Post is advanced in its plans to roll-out a banking service, including credit cards, online banking, debit and credit facilities, current account facilities and so on, in its 1,000 plus outlets across the country, I am sure Members on all sides of this House would welcome that as a third banking service. I will nail my colours to the mast and say that if a full banking service is going to be provided through the post office system, I would find it an attractive alternative. Perhaps for the first time, the pillar banks, particularly Bank of Ireland in the context of its launch in the past week of a particularly terrible initiative, will be hurt financially by the rolling out of the An Post service. There is a moral obligation on the Government, apart from a practical one, to ensure that people are given an alternative as Bank of Ireland withdraws its public service banking system, which has been the mainstay of banking in this country since banking became a reality.

I am requesting a debate on the banking system in the context of the roll-out of a third service and that said debate be taken by the relevant Minister, be it the Minister for Social Protection or the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. I ask that the Leader communicate with both Ministers' Departments in regard to whether either is delaying the roll-out of the postal banking service and, if so, to explain and justify their reason for same.