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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Legal Services Bill debate management

Summary

Senators criticise the Legal Services Regulation Bill’s complexity and amendments while praising the Leader for protecting parliamentary discipline and allowing proper scrutiny rather than forcing an overnight conclusion.

David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

I was a trifle surprised that there was no media coverage whatsoever of the debate on the Legal Services Regulation Bill last night. I think they missed the real story. We spent six hours here dealing with 25 pages of amendments. We went from 6 p.m. until midnight. I commend the Leader of the House, Senator Maurice Cummins, because he stood up for parliamentary discipline. Despite the intentions and wishes of the Minister which were made very clear, either to guillotine the debate or to continue on until 4 a.m. or 5 a.m., Senator Maurice Cummins remanded the Seanad at midnight, quite right, too. I say, "Well done," to the Leader. We had 23 pages of amendments to one page of the Bill. We had amendments to amendments that were made last week. It was bizarre. I have never, in my entire time in the House - nearly 30 years - seen anything remotely comparable. I suggested that because of this concentration of amendments on page 41, the logical thing would have been to reprint page 41 in full. I also suggested we reprint the Bill with the Committee Stage amendments. The Bill had already been amended, but we were not given an amended Bill to work off. We were therefore working off five documents at the same time, including lists of grouped amendments, Committee Stage amendments, Report Stage amendments and the Bill itself. It was an absolute nightmare and there was great dissatisfaction on all sides of the House.

Serious issues were raised. I raised the question of the total absence of a definition of "monitor", which was a significant issue. The Bill defines what a CEO is. Everybody knows what a CEO is, but nobody defined the responsibilities, duties and functions of the monitor. It was just left there as a new word. I second both Senator Denis O'Donovan's amendment that the Bill be withdrawn and Senator Sean D. Barrett's amendment that we take No. 16 first.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator Sean D. Barrett's amendment has already been seconded.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Okay. That is fine.

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But mine was not.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

We are coming up to an amendment very soon - it is about the third or fourth one - which says a member of the public may discuss with a barrister non-controversial or non-contentious items. How bizarre can one get? One talks to a lawyer because one wants him or her to do something about a controversy that is raging and one is involved in legal proceedings. One does not go to a senior counsel and say: "Isn't it a nice day? Look at the clouds in the sky and the little patches of blue. But I don't want to talk to you about the action that I'm involved in, in which you're representing me." It is like saying Seanad Éireann can discuss anything it likes of a non-political nature.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

The Senator can make those points during the debate.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

What is that?

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

The Senator is way over time.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

I have been instructed by my ventriloquist, Senator John Crown, to propose that we take No. 52 before No. 1. I am happy to do so. It looks as though we will have a fair amount of amendments to the Order of Business today, but there we are. I compliment the Leader of the House, Senator Maurice Cummins, who has handled the matter with adroitness and skill. Despite the fact that he was on the Government side, he defended the integrity and rights of Seanad Éireann.

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It could be a crowded stage today, a Chathaoirligh. I briefly congratulate the Haven in Killarney which won the best commercial building award for 2015 at the Brick Awards in London, which recognise achievements in design and construction. The Haven is a beautiful place, as is Killarney. It is a truly disciplined building that works at all levels and it won the award on that basis.

Coming back to the Legal Services Regulation Bill, I accept the good faith of everybody concerned. There is no doubt that it is complex and intricate. As Senators have acknowledged, the Leader has done his very best and will continue to provide ample time. Let us all calm down and get through it. We need and urgently want the regulation that it provides for; therefore, let us not unduly force it.

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If we were any calmer, we would be ineffective.

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No, we are not being ineffective. We were here last night until midnight and, if necessary, we can be here until midnight and beyond again tonight. Let us do our business properly. Senators were very good they way they got into it last night. I listened to much of it.

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Paddy Burke An Cathaoirleach Fine Gael

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

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No. I just want to join Senator David Norris. I cannot enter the stage as he is capable of doing, but I do want to compliment the House. We all have respect for the House. The Leader is doing his damnedest and I agree with Senator David Norris's remarks concerning the Leader.

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