I support my colleagues on the Cassells report. In seeking a debate, however, we must take a much broader approach. Senator Paudie Coffey referred to the need to examine the position on apprenticeships. Until we have the two options of a vocational stream and an academic stream within the education system and until there is parity of esteem between both, we will not have a proper third level education system. Unless we restore to secondary schools the guidance councillors who were removed, we will continue to experience the considerable attrition rates at third level, particularly in first year. If we are to have a debate, we should begin by looking at education, particularly higher education, in the round rather than at the Cassells report per se. We also must look at the staffing of higher education because there are still staff who are on zero-hour contracts. Some academic lecturers are on contracts whereby they are paid between €10,000 and €15,000 per annum. If we are to have a debate on this matter, what needs to happen is that we set aside the Cassells report and consider instead what is wrong with the higher education system. The higher education system is in a state of crisis. All we are hearing about are the grand flowery things, we are not being told what is happening on the ground. Before we start to discuss how to fund the higher education system, let us start talking about what it should be delivering. As Senator Paudie Coffey said, we will pay a significant price in the coming years for failing to develop an apprenticeship scheme that provides for the needs of the economy. It is my belief too many people who would make great carpenters or plumbers are graduating with arts degrees.