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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Health Minister debate amendment

Summary

The Leader rejects holding an immediate debate based on an unfinished leaked report but promises to seek the Minister’s attendance once it is published. After clarification that the report is not yet available, Senator Daly withdraws his amendment.

I thank the 26 Senators who contributed. In respect of the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by Senator Mark Daly, I have no problem bringing the Minister for Health to the House, but we would be setting a very dangerous precedent in bringing him to the House on foot of a newspaper report and an unfinished and unpublished report that he did not commission. Let us be clear: there are no plans to close any emergency department. That is the first item that should be put to bed. Second, it is not about emergency departments, as the Senator argued. It ill behoves any of us to play politics on the issue of emergency departments and with people's lives. At its annual general meeting the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland commissioned a piece of work on trauma care, trauma centres and how to achieve the best outcomes for patients with traumatic head injuries. It is about developing a national trauma policy, ensuring that at its core is the patient and examining how trauma centres can best deal with persons who sustain traumatic injuries. Everyone agrees that there is a need to have a national trauma system in place. I will be very happy to have that debate when the report is published. Rather than divide the House on the issue, I give a commitment that we will have it when the report is finished, but as of now there is no report. The Minister did not commission the report and it has not been presented to him; therefore, he cannot come to the House to update it on a report he has not seen and that has not been finished. Let us be clear: it is about ensuring there is co-ordination between the HSE, the Department of Health and the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland. I served as Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children for five years. I also served as a member of the HSE southern regional health forum.

In Cork city, for example, no one can persuade me of the need, as reported in The Sunday Business Post at the weekend, to close the emergency department at Mercy University Hospital. It would make no sense to close it. As I said, rather than divide the House on the issue, I give a commitment to hold a debate on the report when the Minister receives it because as of now there is no report. I, therefore, ask Senator Mark Daly not to divide the House on the issue but to allow time for the Minister to receive it.

I am happy to accept the amendment proposed by Senator Mark Daly to take No. 18, but we will not have a debate on the Bill today. I am also happy to accept the proposals made by Senators Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Fintan Warfield, but, as in the case of Senator Mark Daly's proposal, we will not have debates on those Bills either today. I am happy to accede to their requests and engage in co-operation in that regard.

I thank all Senators for their comments on the Cassells report. We are all or should be committed to seeing more people attend third level education. That should be our purpose. I thank Mr. Peter Cassells for the work he did in the consultation process leading to publication of the report. Ireland's economy is growing. We need to marry what Senators Paudie Coffey and Gerard P. Craughwell spoke about with particular reference to apprentices and consider how we can make the third level education system fit for purpose for all sectors of society. I spent ten years of my career in education in the adult and continuing education sector which is critically important and the lifeblood of society. The three options put forward in the report make for interesting reading. We all agree that the funding and investment model for third level education needs to be addressed. In his response to the report the Minister for Education and Skills spoke about a ten-year consensus. That is the least there should be.

The Minister has referred the relevant Bill to the education committee, but, like all Senators, I hope the Upper House can play a role in the formulation of higher education policy. I give a commitment that we will have a debate on this matter in the autumn prior to the committee starting its work. We need to address not only participation but also attrition rates for those who take the wrong course and opt to leave early. We need to address the reasons that happens. On the funding mechanism, how can we fund a sustainable third level education model and ensure there is access from all sectors of society? As someone who did not receive a grant, I was lucky to be able to attend third level and very much treasure and cherish the memories of my time in college. I am very conscious that there are others who were not able to attend third level. Equally, there is the issue of participation. I heard the former president of the University of Limerick, Dr. Walsh, on radio yesterday speaking about participation rates in New Zealand and Australia which have different models. It is important that we have a debate on this matter. It is about providing better life opportunities and ensuring we have a skilled workforce, whether through postgraduate studies or via apprenticeships. There are deficits in the apprenticeship system. I concur with Senators Paudie Coffey and Gerard P. Craughwell in that regard. The Cathaoirleach and I are from Cork, a university city, where those involved in research and innovation play a pivotal role, both in Cork Institute of Technology and UCC, as they do across the country in other third level institutions. None of the options is easy, but let us have a mature debate to establish a consensus in the development of a ten-year strategy.

The other theme emerging on the Order of Business - the issue was raised by Senators Rose Conway-Walsh, Frank Feighan, James Reilly and Neale Richmond - was the activity engaged in yesterday and today of burning the Tricolour and political posters. We all want to see tolerant and respectful celebration of different traditions in the North, but none of us wants to go back to what happened in the old days as we all remember what happened in the past. It is important, therefore, that there be calm and peaceful celebration of different traditions. I join other Senators in condemning sectarianism in any form or a lack of tolerance. It is imperative that we build bridges and an Ireland in which we can all be equal and coexist, North and South, on an economic and cultural basis, building on the Good Friday Agreement. In the context of Brexit, it is important to have that debate and it is intended to hold it in the autumn.

Senator Ivana Bacik referred to the Citizens' Assembly. I agree with her that the model of the Constitutional Convention is one we should try to mirror. On occasion the timelines were not achieved in terms of replies, but the Minister is conscious of the need to make sure the assembly will be successful. I am sure that, when replying to the debate, he will give that commitment and outline what he has in mind.

Senator Paudie Coffey highlighted the work done on the Construction Contracts Act. I pay tribute to Senator Gerald Nash and former Senator Feargal Quinn in that regard. As Minister of State, Senator Gerald Nash played a key role in developing the strategy. It is important that we all work to protect the subcontractors who are at the mercy of outside forces. They were the big losers when the recession hit. I am willing to pursue the matter with the Senator.

Senator Keith Swanick referred to the number of patients on trolleys. We have seen a reduction in the number. Senator Colm Burke gave the figures for the numbers attending outpatients and emergency departments. It was interesting to note the number of days lost in respect of the number of patients who had failed to turn up for appointments at outpatients departments. It has a cost in the context of the health budget and also in terms of the work consultants, doctors and nurses do in the health system.

I join Senator Maria Byrne in wishing those involved in Limerick well in seeking to having it nominated as European City of Culture. I hope they will be successful. I will not get into a debate on the cities with which it is competing.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh referred the ruling on the single farm payment. I will see if the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine can come to the House to discuss it. The judge has given a ruling and it is one of which we should take note because it will have a profound impact on the agricultural community.

Senator Frank Feighan has always beaten a drum for Roscommon County Hospital. I congratulate him on the work he has done on the issue.

On the matter raised by Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, thankfully, the remit of the Leader of the Seanad does not extend to deciding where we in this Chamber should move. That is a matter for others to decide. The Senator referred to the policy on the arts and culture, in particular. I am willing to have the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs come to the House to discuss it.

Last week Senator Joe O'Reilly raised the issue of home helps and home care packages. As a consequence of the Senator and other Senators raising this important issue, the Minister for Social Protection will be in the House this evening to discuss it. Last week Senators Collete Kelleher and James Reilly spoke about the importance of home care packages and the work being done by home helps, family carers and carers in general. It is an issue we can discuss in the debate with the Minister.

I am willing to accept Senator Fintan Warfield's proposed amendment to the Order of Business, as well as the proposal made by Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn. I have dealt with the Cassells report.

To be parochial for a moment, Senator Tim Lombard raised the important issue of infrastructural projects in County Cork. It is important that Transport Infrastructure Ireland and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, address the issue because the infrastructural projects to which the Senator referred are pivotal in developing the region economically. They include the N28, Macroom bypass and Dunkettle roundabout projects. If they were to be delayed or not to go ahead, it would have a profoundly negative impact on the economic life of County Cork, not to mention other areas.

Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn raised the issue of motor insurance, a matter which was addressed in the House recently. The Minister for Finance has set up a working group to look at the issue and has committed to coming to the House to discuss it. I hope we will have that debate.

Senator David Norris referred to the supervision of bonfires and the Cassells report. It is important that this House play a role prior to the Joint Committee on Education and Skills beginning its work on the Cassells report.

Senator Robbie Gallagher referred lone parents. This important issue will form part of the debate today in which the Senator will have an opportunity to participate, but if we cannot get to it, I am sure the Minister for Social Protection will return to the House to debate it. As it will probably be the Minister's last time in the House before the summer recess and the legislation is brought to it, I felt it was important to hear statements on social protection in order that Members would have an input into the debate.

Senator Paul Gavan referred to Shannon Airport and the policy on the military use of airports. I will be happy to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, to come to the House to speak about the matter.

I ask Senator Mark Daly to withdraw the amendment regarding the report on trauma facilities as the Minister for Health has not seen it. I spoke to him about it this morning and will be very happy to have a discussion on it when it can be put before the House. Rather than divide the House on the basis of a newspaper report which contains hearsay - it would set a bad precedent - I give a commitment to have a debate on the report after it has been published.

Comment on this

We could suspend the sitting to enable the Leader to seek clarification as to when the Minister would be able to come before the House.

Comment on this

I spoke to him prior to coming into the House. He has not seen the report as it has not been finished. The Senator is basing his comments on a leaked report which gives a sensational perspective.

Comment on this
David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

It could not be more clear.

Comment on this

When the report is published, I commit to asking the Minister to come to the House to discuss its contents.

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Mark Daly has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate with the Minister for Health on the report of the steering group on the closure of nine emergency departments be held today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Comment on this

The steering group was set up by the former Minister, Deputy Leo Varadkar-----

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

We cannot have a debate on the matter now.

Comment on this

We are not having a debate on it, but we have not received clarification. As we are approaching the recess, when will the Minister receive the report? If we were to suspend the sitting for ten minutes, we could seek clarification as to whether he will come before the House before the summer recess. The problem is that there are emergency departments which are crying out for staff and there is no chance-----

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

We cannot have a debate on the matter now.

Comment on this

May I assist Senator Mark Daly?

Comment on this
Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The Senators should, please, resume their seats. The position is clear. Senator Mark Daly will either push the amendment to a vote or he will not.

Comment on this

Will the Leader come to the House tomorrow morning and clarify when the Minister expects the House to see the report?

Comment on this

In order to help the Senator, I spoke to the Minister about the issue this morning.

Comment on this

The Minister has not yet received the report. The steering group has not yet reported and the Minister has not seen any output from it. Its recommendations are not expected until later in the year. I can provide clarification tomorrow.

Comment on this

I withdraw the amendment.

Comment on this