I want to clarify a matter. The Leader and I had a lively exchange yesterday and I want to put it on the record that I have the height of respect for him. Perhaps part of the misunderstanding arose because Pro Life Campaign is a specific organisation. I am certainly in a position to say that the organisation is not - as the Leader said yesterday - well able to get money from abroad and to bring in people from outside.

Domino's Pizza.

There may be the odd widow or orphan with an Irish passport who does his or her bit from time to time, but there is nothing comparative with the massive influx of resources from foundations to organisations that are pushing for a change in the law. There are real questions to be asked about whether it is good that big foundations can pump massive amounts of money into a small country in order to engineer a change in the law that will lead to massive social change. Regardless of one's views on abortion, one should be concerned with that situation. Perhaps the Leader meant the pro-life movement generally, I cannot speak to that, but the examples given of Irish people being brought to the US at a given time do not make out that case. My desire yesterday was for clarity. I was not in any way trying to undermine the Leader but I believe he was unfair to the Pro Life Campaign in what he said.

We are all part of the pro-life campaign. I am pro-life.

Senator Norris is out of order for the moment but I will call him shortly.

We should be able to get to the point where we can actually clarify issues on their own merits without getting partisan about it. The Leader is capable of that and I will try to be capable of it also. I need to say that. It has not been the case that there has been any kind of influx of money to roll out a campaign. Would that there had been, particularly in terms of the very good educational work involved, but that is not the position. The story here, namely, that George Soros's Open Society Foundations are putting six-figure sums into Amnesty International, should not be ignored. That is a disgraceful situation.

Great. Wonderful. It should get more.

These people used to defend freedom of conscience and now they want to destroy innocent, unborn lives. Consider the Abortion Rights Campaign Ireland or the likes of the Irish Council for Civil Liberties - supposedly a charity - which is getting money to change the law and-----

What does the Senator mean by saying it is supposed to be a charity? It is a charity.

Order please.

There is a debate that needs to be had-----

It is recognised as a charity.

The debate. I want to ask the Leader-----

Senator Norris is out of order and Senator Mullen's time is up.

I want the Leader to organise-----

He is a lot more out of order than I am.

No, he is not. The Senator's time is up but Senator Norris is out of order.

I will conclude by asking the Leader to organise a debate, in which we will not have a go at each other-----

That will be the day.

Senator Mullen will have to continue this discussion outside the Chamber.

-----to discuss the precise circumstances in which it is appropriate for money to come in from abroad for the purposes of influencing the political affairs of this country. There will be different views-----

The Senator-----

-----but let us start by ensuring that-----

Senator-----

-----organisations are obeying the law.

I will have to halt the Senator, he has had nearly twice his time.