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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The Leader replied on McCabe, Tusla, the DEIS issue and the scheduled debate, then accepted the amendment to take No. 13 before No. 1. He also confirmed the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs would come to the House the next day; McDowell’s amendment to adjourn No. 1 at 7 p.m. was still being pressed.

Sorry, I did second the amendment.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

I thank the Senator. I call on the Leader to reply.

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I thank the 20 Senators who have contributed to the Order of Business. As many as 13 Members have rightly mentioned the treatment meted out to Sergeant Maurice McCabe and his family. At the beginning of my reply as Leader of the House, I remind all Senators that we are not the judge and jury of what the Government has proposed, that our language is important and that what we say matters. I appeal to all Members to be cognisant of these facts. People are presumed innocent until proven otherwise and, therefore, everything that we say or do is important.

All of us in this House share the view that Sergeant McCabe, his wife, Lorraine, and family deserve justice. There are many strands to this unedifying story. There are questions to be answered. It is incumbent on us to ensure that they are answered and that the truth is revealed. This afternoon, the Taoiseach announced in the Lower House that the Government will establish a public tribunal of inquiry, under the Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) Act, into the alleged smear campaign against Sergeant McCabe. It is important that truth and justice are arrived at and that the eminent judge charged with the task is allowed to do his or her work. If there is a deliberate smear campaign against Sergeant McCabe, then those who carried it out should not be immune from prosecution and should be held to account for their actions.

In terms of the questions posed on terms of reference, the information that I have indicates that we should have some material to debate within the next 48 hours. As members know, we already had an issue scheduled on the Order Paper for Thursday next but events have led to a change.

It is important that the presumption of innocence still stands for any citizen. Equally, on a personal level, I hope that the truth comes out and, as Senators Boyhan and McFadden have said, that this will not be a political matter. I was irked by some of the comments that many Senators have made in terms of their ability to come in here today-----

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-----when their party was involved in matters. Their leader - and the leadership of their party - hid behind the truth. They did not rush to offer assistance and instead ran away. Let us have a proper debate on the matter. Let us hope that the inquiry brings an answer that is in the interests of the McCabe family, the person that is Maurice McCabe and his wife, Lorraine.

Very valid points were made about Tusla. Senator Conway-Walsh raised an issue. I am happy to inform her that the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will come before the House tomorrow. She cannot come here this evening because she is answering questions in the Dáil, as per the Dáil Order Paper. She will come to this House tomorrow evening. I shall arrange with the Whips later tonight or in the morning to arrange a time for her visit.

I agree with Senator Craughwell and others who raised the need for Tusla to be transparent and accountable. There is political accountability and it is called the electorate. They make their decision. As I said during the Order of Business last week, that there is no longer an acceptance by those of us who have been elected to the Lower or Upper Houses to see public bodies that are non-accountable. That day has passed. There must be a change in how they are held to account.

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Fair play to the Leader.

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In respect of any inquiry, I fully agree that, in my opinion, the file that was created was not a copy-and-paste job. The person who carried out the job should be fired automatically. Those who are not held account should be held to account by us as well.

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One would need to be fairly sure.

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I know. We are elected representatives so we have political accountability. There are those who hide behind Chinese walls when answering parliamentary questions, Topical Issue debates or requests from us, as parliamentarians, as public representatives or as messengers of the people.

That can no longer be allowed to continue, irrespective of what Department or agency is involved. We are the ones who are accountable. Senators and Deputies can be voted out of these Houses, but the people concerned cannot be voted out. That point should not be lost.

Senator Catherine Ardagh referred to a DEIS school. The Minister for Education and Skills has published his plan to tackle educational disadvantage, but I share the Senator's concern about how some schools are allocated or, more specifically, not given DEIS status. As in the Senator's constituency, there are some schools in mine that do not have DEIS status when they should have. The Senator could raise the matter in the Commencement debate, but it is important that we invite the Minister to come to the House to discuss the issue. It is also important to acknowledge that his announcement yesterday included 108 actions to help every child in school to achieve his or her potential. That translates into 110 schools receiving additional supports, from which 28,000 pupils will benefit. This is about improving literacy, numeracy, school completion rates and ensuring more children aged 11 and 12 years will go on to attend post-primary education where they will be able to attain their potential. I am a former teacher and taught the leaving certificate applied programme in educationally disadvantaged areas. It is important that we allow every child to reach his or her potential. The Minister is identifying a new model of education to deliver on the objective of ensuring more children will stay in school. We will see a different model whereby they will have the ability to be educated. However, I agree with the Senator that there is a need for that model and status to be explained properly because there are some schools that we believe should have DEIS status.

I am happy to accept the amendment proposed by Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell to allow No. 13 to be taken.

Senator Catherine Noone referred to the Irish Life Health fitness challenge. It is important that we invite the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, to come to the House because the nation must tackle the issue of obesity. We are heading into the final weeks of "Operation Transformation", which programme, in tandem with the Healthy Ireland project, promulgates the need for fitness, healthy eating and physical activity. The Minister was due to hold an event today, but it was cancelled. Collectively and in a cross-party manner, we should get ourselves moving to tackle the problem of obesity.

Senator Robbie Gallagher also raised an education issue. We should acknowledge that the Government has recruited more teachers. There are an additional 2,400 teachers, as well as an additional 900 special needs assistants, SNAs, employed. Part of the reason schools cannot find teachers is that they are already employed. It is good that we have more teachers employed and that there is increased activity. However, I accept the Senator's point that it is a nightmare for school principals. I will invite the Minister to come to the House to discuss the issue.

I will not accept Senator Michael McDowell's proposed amendment to the Order of Business because it is important that the Bill be passed. We have waited a long time for it.

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It is more important that it be debated than passed.

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As the Senator knows, I am happy to have the debate. The time up to 9 p.m. has been allocated for the debate on Report and Final Stages of the Bill.

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It is not enough.

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I will be happy to allow the Senator to move a recommittal motion if he so wishes. I am not seeking to be obstructionist. I have worked with the Senator and the Seanad Office to ensure amendments will be allowed to be tabled. It is an important Bill for which there is cross-party support. It is about having it enacted. While I understand the Senator's concerns and I am not having an argument with him, an amount of work has been done on the Bill. A huge campaign was undertaken on the part of the Parliament, citizens and the non-governmental organisation, NGO, sector to ensure the Bill would be a priority in the last as well as in this Oireachtas. If one looks at the statistics, one can recognise its importance. What I have proposed in terms of recommittal and allocating the time up to 9 p.m. for the debate is a very fair compromise which I hope the Senator will accept. As I said, I am not trying to be obstructionist. The process will not deprive him of the opportunity to speak and move his amendment.

We may differ on the actual amendments or the process involved but the House is anxious to get the Bill passed, as is the Minister. That said, I appreciate where Senator McDowell is coming from on the matter.

Senator Devine raised the issue of the Stardust tragedy. She is right that today, on Valentine's Day, it is important we remember the young lives that were lost. There has been significant commentary by Government in terms of what is happening, and we should allow that work to continue and reach a conclusion. It is also important that we recognise the young lives that were cut so tragically short on that dreadful Valentine's night. I share Senator Devine's concerns and agree that we need to see justice prevail.

Senators Humphreys and Ardagh raised the issue of Harold's Cross greyhound track. It is important to put on the record that Bord na gCon has statutory responsibility for the development of the greyhound industry. It has been charged with that task. A report was commissioned to look at the future of greyhound racing. That independent report made several recommendations regarding Bord na gCon's financial performance and future prospects. Bord na gCon has considered that report and has decided to put the stadium at Harold's Cross on the market, which will allow for a consolidation, a reduction in the debt levels of the organisation and an increase in the board's capacity to provide support and assistance to the greyhound industry.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, will have the final consent with regard to the sale of Harold's Cross. Any specific proposals for such a sale will be considered in line with the Indecon recommendations and the need to reduce Bord na gCon's debt burden. All of us agree that we should have a vibrant greyhound industry and we should all work to see that happen. If the Senators wish to table a Commencement matter, that might be a way of having the issue addressed in the short term, but I am happy to try to get the Minister to come to the House in the coming weeks to discuss the matter.

Senator Horkan raised the issue of Cherrywood. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, will be in the House tomorrow and the Senator will have the opportunity to debate that matter with him then.

Senator Feighan raised the issue of racism in the Gaelic Athletic Association, GAA. As a member of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael, I can say that the organisation has done huge work in combating racism and promoting integration in our society and our new communities. The GAA deserves to be commended on that but any slippage in that regard must be shown the red card and must not be tolerated.

Senators Gavan and Ó Ríordáin raised the issue of Tesco and the industrial action taking place today in some of its stores. I also stand with the workers of Tesco who, in some cases, have been treated very poorly. There was a debate on the issue on the radio today which outlined some of the remarks made about this dispute. We also had a contribution on the issue last week by Senator Gavan. There is a Labour Court recommendation that some members of the Mandate trade union have refused to accept. We must acknowledge the importance of the retail sector. I would encourage all sides to engage with the industrial relations mechanisms of the State to arrive at a resolution. It is important we do not do anything to undermine the rights of workers and I would be happy to invite the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor, to the House to discuss the matter as well as the wider issues of work and employment. In that context, it is important we put a value on work. This Government and its predecessor have been instrumental in getting people back to work.

Senator Murnane O'Connor raised the issue of the electoral boundaries and I know that Graiguecullen is very close to her heart. I am happy to invite the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, come to the House to discuss that matter. Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised the issue of the daft.ie report and I am happy to invite the aforementioned Minister to the House to discuss it. However, as the Leas-Chathaoirleach said, it might be better to raise this as a Commencement matter for this week.

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I put it down for today-----

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Okay. It is a matter for the Cathaoirleach to decide on that and adjudicate.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

It can be taken on another day. There were a lot of matters submitted today.

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Senator Ó Donnghaile raised the matter of the all-Ireland civic forum. The Minister is very keen to see this continue because it has raised some very important matters. I welcome the Senator's remarks about the benefits of yesterday's meeting.

As a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement, it is important to see human rights continuing to be upheld in all parts of the island.

I would be happy to bring the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, to the House tomorrow, if that is acceptable to Senator Conway-Walsh.

I do not propose to accept Senator McDowell's amendment to the Order of Business.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 13 be taken before No. 1." The Leader has indicated that he is prepared to accept the amendment. Is the amendment agreed? Agreed.

Senator Rose Conway-Walsh has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That a debate with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs on alleged mismanagement at Tusla arising from unfounded allegations concerning Garda Sergeant Maurice McCabe be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

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We accept the Leader's commitment that the Minister will come to the House tomorrow.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Is the amendment withdrawn?

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Yes, on the proviso that the Minister will come to the House tomorrow.

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I will try to get a time for the Minister to come to the House. It will probably be after Private Members' business, but let me come back to the House on that.

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Will the Minister definitely come in tomorrow?

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Yes. She will definitely be here tomorrow. To help the House, I hope it will be sometime between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m., depending on when we have concluded Private Members' business. I will come back to the House on that.

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Paul Coghlan An Leas-Chathaoirleach Fine Gael

Is that agreed? Agreed. The amendment is withdrawn.

Senator McDowell has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That consideration of No. 1 be adjourned at 7 p.m." Is the amendment being pressed?

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Division Lost

Amendment put

Tá 6
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Níl 35

Do you agree with this result?

Division Carried

Question put: "That the Order of Business, as amended, be agreed to."

Tá 37
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Níl 4

Do you agree with this result?