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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Order of Business

Summary

The Leader responded to the various issues raised: Brexit and the Government’s whole-of-government response, the Bus Éireann dispute, Garda governance, Defence Forces debate, cancer-patient parking, LIHAF housing funding, the GAA minute’s silence, out-of-town retail parks, plain packaging, and Seanad attendance rules. He defended the Government’s approach, offered follow-up where appropriate, and the Order of Business concluded.

I thank the 24 Senators for their contributions to the Order of Business this afternoon. Senators Ardagh, Bacik, Ó Donnghaile and Richmond raised the issue of Brexit. It is a monumental day in the history of the European Union and our country. I reassure all Members of the House that the Government is not just paying lip service. It is not just rhetoric by Government but absolute action led by the Taoiseach and Ministers across Europe and the world. Senators can have a viewpoint about having a Minister for Brexit but I will pose a question to the Members opposite who asked for one. Which Department would they get rid of? Under the Constitution, we can only have a set number of Ministers so which one would they get rid of?

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The Minister, Deputy Ross.

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I will rephrase the question for those who are hard of hearing.

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The Leader walked into that.

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Which Department would they get rid of? Senator Gavan is saying we should get rid of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. That is the Sinn Féin policy. Sinn Féin wants to get rid of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. That is fair enough. I posed the question to the Members opposite. Let me make it quite clear that the Taoiseach, as the head of the Government, is leading a whole-of-Government approach to Brexit. I agree with Senator Ó Donnghaile that we must be united as a country, North and South, in our approach to Brexit. It is one of the most important decisions that will face our country for a generation. Its impact is profound. I reassure Senator Ardagh and others that the Government is under no illusions about the task ahead. I agree with Senator Bacik that perhaps the Seanad, notwithstanding the good work that has been started by the Seanad Brexit committee, should have a debate in the House. I would be happy to have it but it is important to dovetail with the Seanad Brexit committee. I am happy to have that debate here.

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Will the Leader ask the Taoiseach to come here for that debate?

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The Taoiseach has been here before. The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, will be here tomorrow for statements on the North. The Government is committed to protecting and advancing Ireland's cause across Europe. Nobody wants the return of a hard Border. As the Taoiseach says, nobody wants to see the creation of a new border in the future. The Government will defend the Good Friday Agreement as we have always done. We are working with Mr. Juncker and Mr. Tusk and if one reads their recent comments, one cannot but be heartened by the importance Ireland has been given in their remarks. The position paper will be published by Government before 29 April. We will have a very strong case across Europe but it requires the support of all parties. I commend the Labour Party on its position paper. Deputy Donnelly is Fianna Fáil's newly created spokesman on Brexit. I am sure we will all work together to ensure Ireland has a united voice. We should all wear the green jersey. We should not put naked political partisanship up the pole but should all stand to fight for Ireland.

Senators Ardagh, Gavan, Bacik and Wilson raised the issue of Bus Éireann. I reiterate the remarks I made yesterday. Nobody is winning in this dispute. Nobody wants to see an all-out ballot of any union - in this case the bus workers - or of Dublin Bus or Irish Rail. It is in no one's interest. As Members have said, it is not in the interest of the workers, the company or the travelling public. There is an absolute certainty here. There is a need for management and unions to re-engage. I appeal today to all sides to take part in talks.

The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and the Labour Court are available. Let us use their good offices to engage in talks to resolve the issue. It is time we had movement by both sides in talking again. Members of the House keep repeating an old chestnut. The Government has given €230 million in the PSO levy. If one includes rural transport services, the total investment comes to €277 million. Funding was increased in the past two budgets and the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Leo Varadkar, is examining the provision of funding for the free travel scheme. From my reading of it, the core of the issue is efficiency. Such issues are best resolved at the WRC. Everybody wants the dispute to be resolved. I agree with Senator Diarmuid Wilson in that I do not want management in Bus Éireann to keep the dispute going to the point where a solution cannot be found. I appeal to it to be the first, if necessary, to accept the need for talks and re-engage. The pillorying of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, will not solve the problem. He might be a very handy-----

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

No, but it is fun.

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It might be fun and a cheap political gain for some, but the Minister is very much aware of the urgency of the issue and will be before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport today.

Senators Craughwell, Feighan, McDowell, Devine and Colm Burke referred to An Garda Síochána. The Government is committed to resolving the matter and an independent review is to be carried out. I agree with Senator McDowell that it is about governance and that the issue must be rectified immediately. It amuses me when I hear Members of both Houses, in particular, Fianna Fáil Members who were in government for 14 years in a row and appointed many of those in management in An Garda Síochána, look for a head to roll. The removal of the Garda Commissioner in itself would not lead to the cultural change and reform needed. Let us not race to the bottom in politics to get someone sacked. The substantive issue is the way in which An Garda Síochána is operated and how it is viewed by the public. The challenge presented by the change of culture and regime requires serious political consideration and debate. We all need action in An Garda Síochána. It is awful and nauseating in waking up every morning and listening to "Morning Ireland", or whatever programme one listens to, to hear a new story emerge about An Garda Síochána which does nothing for the morale of rank and file gardaí who are doing the very best they can. As the party that founded An Garda Síochána, which has always held it in respect and that stood up for law and order when others did not, we will stand by it and see a new force emerge. We need a Patten-type report. I agree with Senator McDowell that it should not take two years, but we need to see reform which must happen now. I am very committed, as are the Minister for Justice and Equality and members of my party, to standing by An Garda Síochána and bringing about regime change. There is a need for a regularisation of affairs with the Revenue Commissioners and significant reform. It was the Fine Gael Party in government with the Labour Party that changed the appointment method for Garda Commissioners and promotions to other senior positions. Let us be clear: it was not the parties opposite but my party that changed the regime. What we must also do is restore public trust and confidence in An Garda Síochána which, regrettably, are at an all-time low. I am a member of a number of policing fora in Cork city and county and pose the question to myself every time I attend a meeting as to whether the statistics read out are correct. An Garda Síochána must re-establish the trust and confidence of the public, an gnáth dhuine. There is a need for a forensic review of operations to put in place a new An Garda Síochána. We should all look at the Garda Inspectorate's report, Changing Policing in Ireland, which contains some very good information and which will result in action.

Senator Gavan referred to community workers and the Minister involved attending the WRC. I am not aware of the matter. If the Senator wishes to send me an e-mail, I will be happy to take up the issue with the Minister.

Senators Grace O'Sullivan and Black raised the cases of Grace and Mary. Senator Devine also touched on the issue. It is important that there be accountability and transparency in the protocols between Tusla and the HSE for persons in care and those involved in fostering because it is a specialised area in which so much joy, relief and comfort are brought to people. However, there is an issue that must be addressed and I will be happy to have the relevant Minister come to the House to discuss it.

Senator Bacik referred to President Trump's new executive order. It is absolutely baffling to have a President reverse the environment policies of President Obama because, as the Senator rightly said, the issues of global warming and climate change are very important.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Twenty-three states are opposing him.

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I was going to refer to that fact, that, thankfully, 23 states were standing up to him on the issue.

Senator Byrne referred to the Defence Forces. We were due to have a debate on them in the House prior to St. Patrick's Day. I hope we will have it soon.

Senator Gallagher raised the issue of car parking charges for cancer patients. I know that there is a protocol in some hospitals whereby cancer patients and their families are given a derogation. I hope it can be applied universally across the country. I will be happy to talk to the Senator about the matter.

Senators Boyhan, Colm Burke and Lombard mentioned the very good news yesterday about funding for and investment in local authority housing. I cannot indicate why councils in Galway and one other county, the name of which I cannot remember, have not yet received funding. A total of 34 sites have been unlocked, while 15 councils have been allocated funding to the tune of €226 million to be invested in infrastructure. It is a good news story.

Senator Ó Domhnaill indicated that the website of the Department of Social Protection was down. I will be happy to ask the Minister to address the matter.

Senator Swanick raised the issue that was raised yesterday by Senator Devine about organ donation. I join him in hoping the very fine report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will be implemented and that we will have a soft opt-out system. I will not get into a debate with him on the role of certain people in helping the cause of organ donation, but what we must do is ensure that we collectively change the policy in order that more people will assist in organ donation.

I congratulate Senators Ruane and Dolan on the reversal of the decision on DIT access students. The issue of discalculia and the waiver for maths is important. In the short term perhaps Senator Ruane might table a Commencement matter to which the Minister for Education and Skills would come to the House to respond. I accept that it is an issue that must be addressed.

As Senator Mac Lochlainn is aware, I am endeavouring to broker an agreed motion on those who were involved at Jadotville. I agree with him that it is a motion that requires the support of all of us to give the members of the Defence Forces who were involved justice at some level. I know that what is being sought is not much in terms of change and the Senator and I are on common ground in that regard. I am trying to make progress on the issue. To be fair to the Minister of State, he is very amenable but work remains to be done. I am happy to work with the Senator on the issue. As regards front-line service personnel, I am surprised by what the Senator said that fire brigade personnel do not receive commemorative medals, given that other first-line responders do. Perhaps we might raise the issue as part of our discussion with the Minister of State. The current arrangement does not make sense to me.

Senator Lombard raised the issue of Garda vetting. The Minister for Justice and Equality was in the House last week to respond to a Commencement matter on the issue. It is important that we address it. It is an area in which improvements have been seen, but we must ensure transparency and uniformity of approach.

Senator Wilson also raised the issue of judicial appointments. I reiterate what I said yesterday, that we all recognise the importance of having an independent judiciary. We accept the excellence of the Judiciary in the work it does and the role it plays. I will be happy to have the Minister for Justice and Equality come to the House to discuss the issue in the context of the judicial appointments Bill.

Senator Devine referred to children in care. She raised the issue of access to HSE disability services in the context of the memo to the Government yesterday. We all accept that it is an important step. We are aware of what was said in the debate yesterday on the health Bill about free GP care. We have some distance to travel in the provision of disability services and I hope the Government will be able to put together a package in that regard.

Senator Richmond referred to the stand-off between the Irish Hockey Association and Belfield. I have seen the new national hockey stadium at Belfield. It beggars belief the last game played there was in 2015, given the investment made in what is a fine stadium.

There was a world cup there in 2014.

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It needs to be addressed.

Senator Davitt asked about Cumann Lúthchleas Gael and the proposed reduction in the minute's silence to 20 seconds. I was in Páirc Uí Rinn last Sunday at the Cork-Tipperary game and to the best of my knowledge, a minute's silence for the late Michael Maher and Tony O'Mahony, two fine former officers of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael at Munster and Cork levels, was held. I agree, however, as a member of Cumann Lúthchleas Gael on the question of the minute's silence being reduced. It is important we acknowledge and pay tribute to the work of volunteers and players. Senator Feighan said the FAI had a round of applause, which is a nice way of acknowledging the role of deceased persons.

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I would expect nothing else from the rebel county.

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Senator Butler mentioned the fact Retail Excellence Ireland was making a presentation today and he also brought up the question of out-of-town business parks. He raises a very good point because many businesses have moved to the periphery of our major towns. Retailers in the towns are competing with these business parks as well as with online shopping, and parking is also an issue. There is a need for a common-sense approach to planning and I encourage him to set up a cross-party delegation with the Minister.

Senator Reilly raised the issue of plain packaging. I commend the respective Ministers, Deputies Corcoran Kennedy and Harris, on signing the Bill, which was passed in the previous Oireachtas, into law today. It was commenced under the leadership of Senator Reilly as Minister for Health and he deserves credit and our congratulations for the role he played in standing up to big tobacco and for taking the fight across Europe.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

Hear, hear.

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He rightly said that 700,000 people die from smoking across Europe and 6,000 of our own citizens die, while big tobacco is interested in promoting smoking among people, particularly young people.

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

He had great support in this house from Professor John Crown.

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Yes. We acknowledge his support and that of the former Senator Jillian van Turnhout, who played a key role. I also thank the Irish Cancer Society for its role. Senator Norris raised the issue of wages and conditions. We got into a bit of bother last week for some of our comments. I am on record as saying that fobbing in is not a way to do business. In city and county councils members attend 80% of the time and that may be the way to proceed, though how we would work it out is a different matter. It is for the commission to decide and I would be happy to work with the Senator to help reach a common-sense approach

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David P.B. Norris Senator David Norris Independent

We should be trusted.

Order of Business agreed to.

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