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Seanad
‹ Order of Business

Coast Guard funeral and Public Accounts dispute

Summary

The Leader opened by remembering Captain Mark Duffy's funeral and paying tribute to the Coast Guard, then defended the Government over Bus Éireann cuts and the Garda Commissioner. The discussion became a prolonged argument with Senators Devine and Gavan over the Committee of Public Accounts, the Cerberus meeting, due process and what the minister knew, with the Chair repeatedly intervening to restore order.

Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

I call on the Leader to respond.

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There must have been something in the water supplied in the Chamber this morning.

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The water is still free.

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I ask Members of the House to remember that Captain Mark Duffy's funeral is taking place today. I commend Senator Swanick on the volunteer role that he is playing in Mayo. I neglected to reply to him on this matter during yesterday's Order of Business. We all pray that the bodies of the two other crew members will be found and returned to their families. We should all remember, acknowledge and pay tribute to the men and women in the Irish Coast Guard who do tremendous work in very difficult situations and circumstances.

Senators Ardagh, Craughwell, Ó Ríordáin and Mulherin have raised the issue of Bus Éireann. I reiterate that everybody wants the dispute to end and it is of no benefit to the company, especially its staff, bus drivers, workers and their families. All of us, irrespective of our political viewpoint, want the dispute resolved. The only way to resolve the dispute is for all sides to sit around a table and engage in a meaningful conversation on an efficiency plan that will lead to buses going back on the streets, the workers back at work and a service provided to the travelling public. The points made by Senators Ó Ríordáin and Mulherin are worth noting. They offered suggestions rather than calling for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to intervene, which has been the only mantra for some Senators.

In terms of the PSO levy and free travel, the Minster for Social Protection is considering the funding and the free travel scheme. He has always acted and I am sure he will act again in this case. I remind Members that the PSO levy has been increased in the past two budgets.

Senator Mulherin made the pertinent point, and I make this appeal as Leader of the House, that management should manage and show leadership in terms of this issue. They should extend the hand of conversation and dialogue to the workers and unions. I appeal to the management team to initiate talks again and engage in a meaningful way with the workers. As Senator Gavan and others alluded to yesterday, management is attempting, which I hope is not true, to run this dispute into the ground. I plead with management not to engage in that practice. This dispute is a serious issue and requires the people in charge to take their role seriously. I urge them to engage now and extend an invitation to workers to re-engage in talks.

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The management also needs to take the medicine that it has dished out to workers.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

No interruptions, please.

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I accept the points made by Senators Craughwell and Mulherin that cuts should be implemented in a uniform manner. In my opinion, the workers have disproportionately taken a hit. Senator Craughwell has made the fair comment that management should not be immune from cuts.

Senator Ardagh mentioned the Garda Síochána. The Garda Commissioner is attending an Oireachtas joint committee this morning.

Again everybody recognises that mistakes were made and wrongdoings have taken place. They are unacceptable. Nobody can condone that type of management performance and operation of our police force, An Garda Síochána.

I have made the point in this House and I repeat it this morning that there is a need for a cultural change in the management and the structure of management in An Garda Síochána. The previous Government and this Government have initiated reform of An Garda Síochána. When I hear people saying the Commissioner should go, do they realise that should the current Commissioner go, it does not lead to change in An Garda Síochána. An Garda Síochána needs root and branch change which the independent review that is being carried out will bring. We are focusing on having a head on a plate. I do not like that type of politics because it is populist and gets a headline in the newspaper. What we must see is a complete overhaul and a reworking of the way in which An Garda Síochána is managed and the management structure. I hope we will get that from the independent review, the work of GSOC and the Garda Síochána Inspectorate.

Senator Craughwell raised the issue of education and training boards, ETBs, and microfinance. The Senator is correct about microfinance and the innovation hubs and centres in our universities and technical colleges. ETBs have a role to play and it is something that should be considered in the context of adult education and people returning to education. I know that Senator Craughwell's life experience is an example of what one can achieve from education later in life. We need to cultivate those opportunities at ETB level. It is a good idea and I would be happy for the Minister to come to the House to address it.

Senator Devine raised the issue of Project Eagle. It suits the narrative of some Members to engage in this manner. I found the Senator's remarks on the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, unparliamentary and unacceptable. The Minister refutes completely and absolutely that he acted in any way inappropriately. Due process was not given to the Minister. There is political posturing being done by the Committee of Public Accounts.

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Is the Leader attacking the Committee of Public Accounts?

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The Senator is correct, I did. There was an absolute need to do so because the Senator's contribution was very disappointing.

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But Senator Buttimer is correct?

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Let us make it quite clear. The details of the meeting were put in the public domain. May I ask the Senator whether she has read the minute of the meeting?

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What did it say? I would say the Senator did not read it.

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That is harassment.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

The rules also apply to the Leader. Leader, please do not engage in cross-party banter. Please address the Chair.

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There was also a minority report. To be fair to the Minister, due process was not given to him. At all times-----

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So he threatened them.

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He hid the information.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Allow the Leader to continue.

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At all times he co-operated with the Committee of Public Accounts, providing all documentation-----

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No, he did not.

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I will injunct Senator Buttimer for what he has said.

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-----providing all information.

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He knew about it.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senators, please allow the Leader to respond.

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He refutes all suggestions of inappropriate meetings with Cerberus. He was not invited by the Committee of Public Accounts to discuss this and the Minister has no role-----

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I know about it.

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The Minister has no role. The Senator might understand this if she goes back and reads-----

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Observable facts.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Please allow the Leader to respond.

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Nobody knew about it.

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Denis O'Donovan An Cathaoirleach Fianna Fáil

Senator Devine is not achieving anything by these interruptions. Please allow the Leader to respond. If Senator Devine does not agree, she can challenge him the next morning.

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Let me quote from the Minister's speech in the Dáil last night. He stated: "The Committee of Public Accounts has accepted my long-standing position derived from law that in these circumstances, it was not within the powers of the Minister for Finance to direct NAMA to halt the sale process." Let us make that quite clear. Let me repeat, the minute of the meeting with Cerberus is available on the Department of Finance's website for everybody to read. It does show that the Minister has not acted inappropriately at all. Let us make that quite clear.

I will be happy to accept Senator Kelleher's motion and I was hoping to second it but I understand that Senator Ó Ríordáin has done so. I commend her for raising this issue.

Senators Richmond and Reilly raised the issue of JP Morgan, which we hope will come to Dublin. I think Senator Richmond's comment in regard to the capital plan post-Brexit is something that the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy O'Donohoe, will be happy to come to the House to discuss. It is an important discussion to have.

Senator Gallagher again raised the issue of the Kevin Bell Repatriation Trust. I think the requests are reasonable in terms of expediting the charitable application. I am sure we can sit down as a cross-party grouping and work out a mechanism whereby we can go to the Department to see if we can get some financial assistance for that case.

Senators Gavan, Davitt, Ned O'Sullivan and Wilson raised the issue of Irish Water. I commend Senator Wilson for stating the facts. In the North, where Sinn Féin is in government, there are two regimes, regional and district, and Sinn Féin is party to the imposition of double taxation on Irish people in the North.

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